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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:26 am 
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Bruce Doull
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It's just depressing to see so much effort dropped in by the players for so little gain. There is a massive gap between what the coaches are seeking and what's appearing on the field, but I think communication and absorption of the information are only part of the problem.

The tactics are over simplified, the pool of scenarios mooted too few and the message dumbed down to the point of leaving people rote learning where to stand on the field instead of understanding it and making it instinctual in their play. So much going wrong, and not enough people digging in and looking for solutions.

Whether or not Ratten goes, there needs to be quite a few egos swept out the door at the end of the season.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:29 am 
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Rod Ashman

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In my mind there are two key aspects of our game that are falling short. This was shown up yesterday:

∗ negative game style - too often we go wide or backwards. Now this is fine in certain pressure situations but not when you are clear and looking to score. You need to be more proactive. It was infuriating to see us handball to stationary targets or switch the play with a kick to another player who was held up and kicking over the mark. Pointless football. You need some run and carry. Apart from Yarran and Jamison in our back half, I couldn't find another player who is able to turn defence into attack. Hawthorn have this in spades. It also gives the other team time to set up. Why do you think Geelong has been so successful over the last five years. They have elite kicks and play corridor footy.

∗ defensive pressure - too often we allow easy goals. It appears our set ups just don't work consistently. Whether that be due to bad positioning or mental lapses. People may not agree with me, but I actually believe that our endeavour has been quite good for most games this year. Our possession count has been good but we have played a lot of dumb football. We don't get reward for our efforts. It's disheartening when other teams waltz into goal after we have had the ball in our forward half for extended periods. Confidence drops quickly when this occurs.

Hopefully, we can rectify these issues quickly.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:34 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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I thought the overall effort was good - the execution poor however.

No need to mention names but our "bottom six" players continue to let us down and IMO this is where Sydney are stronger than us.

I like Zac Tuohy and he could develop into a quality player however a stint in the 2nds might do him some good.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:22 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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17th Premiership wrote:
More skill drills over summer.
More game plan drills (got to have a game plan + tools/appetite to adapt).




Questioning the merit of spending all that money on the trip to Qatar, when staying home and putting some time in the gym and on the field would probably have been just as worthwhile.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:45 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Make no mistake, this was a winnable game, injuries and all.
The Swans beat us purely with poise and structure. Kudos to Roos and Longmire for giving them those weapons.
This was a nothing result, we haven't improved over the last 2 years. Our personnel has changed but any time we come up against a team with discipline and structure, we have to play out of our skins to win.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:26 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Bloody hell!

I'm surprised we even managed a goal, considering we didn't have a forward line the entire game.

At one point, both Waite and Levi went for a grab at the same time, which is fine, but it was halfway up the ground on the wing???? ?What are you both doing up there?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:30 am 
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Bruce Doull
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A team of "champions" vs a champion team. The result should surprise no-one.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:55 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Sydney well and truly older and more experienced. Exactly two years older on average and almost 1000 more games experience under their belt.

A couple of more pre-seasons. :grin:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:14 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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buzzaaaah wrote:
Our personnel has changed but any time we come up against a team with discipline and structure, we have to play out of our skins to win.



Exactly. :clap:

What we need is a coaching panel that can instil discipline and structure - and players that can deliver it under pressure with poise.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:18 am 
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Harry Vallence
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ryan2000 wrote:
Bloody hell!

I'm surprised we even managed a goal, considering we didn't have a forward line the entire game.

At one point, both Waite and Levi went for a grab at the same time, which is fine, but it was halfway up the ground on the wing???? ?What are you both doing up there?


Totally agree. I think it is just indicative how we simply don't have any structure up-forward. I lost count of the number of times we kicked it into our 50 to 3:1 or even 3:0 contest just allowing Sydney to set up for another goal.

Surely it can't be that hard to keep a forward structure in place :banghead:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:26 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Humpers wrote:
I thought the overall effort was good - the execution poor however.

No need to mention names but our "bottom six" players continue to let us down and IMO this is where Sydney are stronger than us.

I like Zac Tuohy and he could develop into a quality player however a stint in the 2nds might do him some good.


And it could also destroy his new found confidence in being able to play AFL at the top level....Zach Tuohy is not a player to demote.

And what a beautiful kick he is.... :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:35 am 
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John Nicholls

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Teams pushing back , wearing our punches, then getting us on the counter with loads of space has been a thorn in our side for a long time. It has become a thorn in West Coasts side of late also. Both WC and Carlton continue to press and try to score in the most congested 50arcs ever seen. We would be onto a winner if we ever found a way to score in that congestion but i doubt that is possible.

Perhaps we just not press up and wait further back down the field. Perhaps we should not bother going in when it is that congested. Or do what we do now and go into the pockets to get a stoppage but not commit too many players to the congested stoppage, but have them further back down the ground, almost concede possession and focus on pinching the ball back on the wings rather than around 50. Then hit them on the counter as they come out of their defensive 50. This tactic will make us less easy to score against also.

The uber press is not as effective as it use to be with teams holding their defensive shape even when they have the ball. It is handy at times but not all the time. Shifting our focus to getting the ball back further afield would open up our forward line IMO and attacking will become easier.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Just received Ratten's weekly post game email to members. Noticed the final sentence which reads:

Quote:
We also discovered how well a team can gel when they have used only 26 players over the past ten weeks


Thought about that statement and wondered:

1. is this a reference to the team's output being affected by injuries, and possibly an excuse?

2. is this a dig at the conditioning folk for not being able to get the players injury management through the season?

3. is this an insight into my suspicious and devious mind that I would read between the lines like this.


I suspect #3

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Carlton get the ball, they're outnumbered, can't find a free player and inevitably turn the ball over.
Sydney get the ball, they outnumber Carlton, have free players all over the ground and work the ball forward resulting in a shot at goal.

This is how the game looked 75% of the time.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:46 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Sydney's handball in close was sensational

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:49 pm 
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Robert Walls
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The last 2 posts from Wojee and CK sum up the game perfectly in my opinion.

We were never in it after the first 10 minutes.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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CK95 wrote:
Sydney's handball in close was sensational



This.

As was their ability to kick to a player wearing the same colours.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Sydney's handball in close was sensational



This.

As was their ability to kick to a player wearing the same colours.


How many times did we kick long to hit Ted Richards or Heath Grundy on the tit with no Carlton player within 20m?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:58 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Wojee wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Sydney's handball in close was sensational



This.

As was their ability to kick to a player wearing the same colours.


How many times did we kick long to hit Ted Richards or Heath Grundy on the tit with no Carlton player within 20m?


About as many times as we had two guy's going for the same footy at a stoppage and as many times as we had two or three guy's running along side each other.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:59 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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And as many times as we had nobody at home up forward

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