You guys all seem to forget that Curnow was also injured in the first quarter of Round 4. Although he, Yarran and Laidler battled on, we had 4 1st quarter injuries in that game.

Dont think you could have planned for rowe (cancer), mitchell (shoulder), casboult (knee), white (knee), davies (shoulder) to have all been unavailable at the same time (along with duigan, laidler, jamison being either injured/underdone)

that is a lot of talls to be unavailable/underdone at the same time (and I havent even mentioned warnock...)

Lets not make excuses- next it will be the umpires

agree win against dogs was gutsy because we had many injuries 11 of our best players out other than that really not a factor -was it the reason we were insipid against port and the players simply appeared to not have a go - was it the reason we kicked 2 9 in the last quarter against geelong to lose by 12 points when kicking straight we would have won the match -Is it the reason why apart from round 3 and last week we havent played near our capacity for the whole season NO - good sides overcome adversity weak sides mentally succumb to the pressure - we succumb to the pressure far too often when we have a full playing contingent or not


Im not sure whether it is the management coach or the players but collectively with the list we have and the personnel available we have had for most if not all the season the performance has been AVERAGE and that is the problem NOT INJURIES

If you dont believe that injuries have played a significant role in our performances, then go back and do the numbers on games missed/injury history.

With injuries you have to look beyond the primary list and look at the availability of their initial replacements - that is where we have fallen down.

As for Ratten's worst injuries since 2002 throwaway line to the media - go back and do a comparison, there is a good chance that you'll find the depth on injuries this season to have been worse than in 2002

There is no way you could have planned for that - I think we should have had more midfield depth don't think you can ever have enough midfielders - But the big blokes up forward thats different all together - Im not one of these posters who thinks Setanta would have saved our bacon . A bit more of a contribution from Hampson and Kruezer would have been nice - As a resting ruckman hammers 15 goals wasn't bad but as a KPF it was ordinary

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4th article yesterday in the press indicated that collingwood in fact have had more injuries than us ie games lossed to top 22 players this year than us - it was a marginal difference and they sit just outside the top 4 - we are 12th - they have won 12 games we have won 8 - they are a better team/squad but arguably have a tougher draw

What does that say about their ability to play with injuries and ours - what does it say about their second and third tier players and what does it about ours

What does it say about the mental toughness of their players and ours

What does it say about their coach what does it say about ours in the sense of getting the most out of players whatever their ability

What does it say about their gameplan and ours and which copes better with injuries

this was it Frank

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

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thanks Sydney also note now that West Coast seem to have had similar injuries as us as well and once again 4th they are doing a lot better than us

Frank it tells me:
- we have an over reliance on some individuals and our game plan does not work when those players are missing. If we will not improve until this is addressed. Repeating what everyone has been saying - our list has been weighted too heavily on outside players and not enough inside players.
- Carrazzo is the perfect example. No-one could fill his role, we had to change things up in midfield and we found we did not have the depth or right structures to support the change. We were exposed for over reliance on him as an individual. This is not related to injuries; our full list / game plan are not aligned
- our reliance on Waite and his injury and then lack of backup because they were injured is somewhat relevant BUT I still doubt Waite as our numer 1 forward was ever going to stand up for a season and finals. so some flaws in that approach too

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Thanks Dom I agree with that and thats really what I was trying to say inelegantly with my questions

If we keep blaming injuries or this is used as an excuse - the proper forensic analysis wont be done and those systemic issues you identified and others both in terms of game pan and personnel wont be rectified

We dont stand up in scrutiny at AFL level cos we dont have the correct foundations all over the club.
The moment some pressure is applied were just swininging in the breeze.
Recruitment
Development
Preparation
Tactiacally...

and then a whole heap of things away from gameday.

another major factor IMO is we dont have enough money to do things correctly....(thats where the off field people are stinking it up)

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We lost a lot of replacements that are not in our top 22 that would have come in. That has to have some effect on performance and doesnt fit into the point you are trying to make. We also wouldnt really include brock as an injury if he went down as he is easily replacable. Same with Ball for them. Mcaffa would also be included in their stats and that would be like arguing Ellard is out.
Who else is down for them? Krakour, Keefe. Not sure that article means much. They seem to play on the MCG every week too. Scumbags...

We should be better but we arnt. If our top 25 are not available we fall away.
We are mentally week. Needs to be addressed by axing.
Forget the bike trips to rosebud or the pow wows around "the chair" .
They didnt work. Study the tapes see who flakes out the most and off them.

Injuries are a significant factor in team performance. That's not an excuse but a fairly obvious fact. I think we're all smart enough to be able to discuss the impact of our injuries this year without losing sight of where we need to improve.

Fev was hardly ever injured.

Bit hard to get injured when you're just having a bit of a sook in the goal square

They are 5th

Review that comment at the end of the season.... They are only 3 games in front of us at the moment and have a tougher run home than us. It is likely that we will finish the season within 1 win of them or on the same number of wins (and we don't have a MASSIVE home ground advantage and 10 extra free kicks per game).

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yibbida I was responding to 4th chicken I know West Coast are not in 4th position
ps want to bet with all their injuries and all injuries they make the 8 and we dont thats the point

Frank - the article is your typical shallow media analysis

As stated previously - whilst injuries to top liners that make a difference, its the additional injuries to depth players that have really hurt. 30% of our list have missed 50% or more of the season to date (becomes 40% if you look at 25% or more % of season injured). Depth players in Mitchell, casboult, rowe, davies, white, bell have all missed huge chunks of the season with injury (ie 50%+) - had they not, they would all have contributed in the team throughout the year (+buckley/bray but not really expected to play so not listed prior).

The actual impact is beyond an individual player's ability - but it extends to team structure (ie needing to play rucks as the primary tall target), the need to plug gaps (gibbs in the back half b/c white, davies unavailable), playing obviously unfit/underdone players (yarran, henderson+others) or the need to carry players that were out of form (not to mention player development, team stability etc). It also has a definite effect on game plan ie how we bring the ball into the forward line, the speed/quality of ball coming in.

Have a look at the comparative depth injuries at collingwood and tell me how many of them have missed chunks of games. I can tell you right now that they havent had the depth of injuries that we've had

I agree... injuries, not only to our best 22 but depth players has cost us a finals spot... maybe 6th to 8th

A poor, outdated gameplan/system meant we were never a realistic premiership threat.

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