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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:20 pm 
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Rod McGregor

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:25 pm 
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Ken Hands
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Some observations:
- North Melbourne couldn't miss in front of goal, 87% scoring accuracy = very rare
- We were gutted by the umpires last night, unbelievable that Aaron Joseph lay on the ground knocked out and we did not even get a free kick!
- Defense is leaking holes all over the place, seems we didn't have a well structured backline to me.
- Shouldn't have taken Jamison off Petrie, even though Petrie was starting to get on top, don't think Jamison was at fault at least for the first one.
- Gartlett needs to be dropped, so out of form its not funny. How was that fumbled sitter in the forward 50 that ended up going out of bounds!?!
- Gibbs is a worry, I don't think he is a backman at all. Everytime he is one on one, he regularly gets beat. Send him in the middle or anything, not down back please Ratts.
- I think the decision to hold onto Bower and let Setanta go was a mistake, at least Setanta could of provided a contest and an opportunity for the crumbing forwards.
- We have no one in the forward line that can clunk a mark, it's an embarrasment. Need to get Waite back and have someone coming out of the goalsquare like Levi
- Injuries have ruined us this year but don't think it is all about injuries. Having reactive coaching and players are badly out of form.

It's all doom and gloom for 2012 unfortunately, wish it wasn't but that's just the way this wasted year is turning out.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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gsker1 wrote:
Some observations:
- North Melbourne couldn't miss in front of goal, 87% scoring accuracy = very rare
- We were gutted by the umpires last night, unbelievable that Aaron Joseph lay on the ground knocked out and we did not even get a free kick!
- Defense is leaking holes all over the place, seems we didn't have a well structured backline to me.
- Shouldn't have taken Jamison off Petrie, even though Petrie was starting to get on top, don't think Jamison was at fault at least for the first one.
- Gartlett needs to be dropped, so out of form its not funny. How was that fumbled sitter in the forward 50 that ended up going out of bounds!?!
- Gibbs is a worry, I don't think he is a backman at all. Everytime he is one on one, he regularly gets beat. Send him in the middle or anything, not down back please Ratts.
- I think the decision to hold onto Bower and let Setanta go was a mistake, at least Setanta could of provided a contest and an opportunity for the crumbing forwards.
- We have no one in the forward line that can clunk a mark, it's an embarrasment. Need to get Waite back and have someone coming out of the goalsquare like Levi
- Injuries have ruined us this year but don't think it is all about injuries. Having reactive coaching and players are badly out of form.

It's all doom and gloom for 2012 unfortunately, wish it wasn't but that's just the way this wasted year is turning out.


Try the 1st three goals. Need to see the replay but off memory the first 3 he received where the softest goals I've seen.
That led to Jamo frustration with the knees to the back off memory as well. :mad:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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there are some basics in winning football matches consistently, which includes having a genuine marking target up front. Ratten has not cottoned on to this and after five years he will never learn. Midfield type players will only get you so far. Moving Henderson to the back line was a shocker. Keeping Duigan in the forward line was also plain wrong. It's short term thinking that impedes progress and doesn't allow your game plans to evolve and set you up for success. I think apart from our inability to stop soft goals (ie defensive pressure), our biggest problem is our terrible forward efficiency. Generally, our percentage of possession is quite good, but our inability to convert is woeful. This primarily comes down to a lack of system going forward and an inability to take marks in the forward 50. Needs to be rectified urgently. Relying on ruckmen or midgets to kick goals is fraught with danger and never stands up in finals anyway. Although, I am not a big fan, Thornton should have played last night.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Nth melb might receive soft frees but their midfielders release the ball from inside 70 meters with well weighted drop punts that give their forwards every chance. Our delivery is poor. Lucas et al very disappointing. Externalities like injuries and umpiring don't excuse 10 goal losses


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:50 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:58 pm
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Location: Melton
4thchicken wrote:
SHould be an interesting week here and around the club

Killed by umps -some of the worst umpiring I've seen for a long while

Injuries have played a role
- loss of simpson + hampson
- loss of touhy pre-game
- loss of walker in the first 1/4
- loss of joseph before half time
- murphy 1st game back, patchy performance. Got the ball but minimal impact, skills down

Rucks and other strucures
- kreuzer isn't 100% - even last week. For proof, just look to see how 'high' he is able to jump
- hampson injured + warnock stupid enough to get suspended
- watson has hardly rucked before and we got smacked whenever he went in there
- henderson probably SHOULD have rucked but coming back from injury they may not have wanted to test him there
- casboult/mitchell not ready due to injuries,
- waite injured
- rowe unavailable

Other thoughts
- For the record, whilst I wouldn't mind seeing thornton in the team, he would not have had any impact in the ruck/clearances
- duigan should have been moved out of forward line a lot earlier
- thought lucas/curnow/garlett/jamison were poor
- better players were Judd, scotland, gibbs, collins, joseph (pre-injury), armfield (despite mistakes), mclean servicable - not much else after that.
- Fast paced game early on, with 2 players injured relatively early we were always going to struggle with rotations. We fell away as the game wore on

FMD - the ants have ANOTHER BYE - how the !@#$%& do we get fitness/conditioning/game time into casboult, mitchell, davies & white?


4th that is a pretty good summary, Ratts was in a position last night where he was shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic, I have watched the replay 4 times and it has got me [REDACTED] what he could do.

We didn't run hard enough defensively but being two rotations down would not have helped that at all, the players would have been stuffed, losing Joseph let Wells of the leash and we didn't have the run to combat it, Murph battled hard but you don't have to be a sports scientist to see he was short of a gallop, Lucas had no impact at all and based on last night I can see why he hasn't been getting a game.

All in all it was a dirty night where nothing went right and it would have been a shitload worse against a really good side.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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North were very good at getting a hand on the ball in the stoppage they seem prepared to allow us to get the ball then chop off the handball release

Smart footy

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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buzzaaaah wrote:
You can't control injuries

Yes you can

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:59 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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blues8182 wrote:
4thchicken wrote:
SHould be an interesting week here and around the club

Killed by umps -some of the worst umpiring I've seen for a long while

Injuries have played a role
- loss of simpson + hampson
- loss of touhy pre-game
- loss of walker in the first 1/4
- loss of joseph before half time
- murphy 1st game back, patchy performance. Got the ball but minimal impact, skills down

Rucks and other strucures
- kreuzer isn't 100% - even last week. For proof, just look to see how 'high' he is able to jump
- hampson injured + warnock stupid enough to get suspended
- watson has hardly rucked before and we got smacked whenever he went in there
- henderson probably SHOULD have rucked but coming back from injury they may not have wanted to test him there
- casboult/mitchell not ready due to injuries,
- waite injured
- rowe unavailable

Other thoughts
- For the record, whilst I wouldn't mind seeing thornton in the team, he would not have had any impact in the ruck/clearances
- duigan should have been moved out of forward line a lot earlier
- thought lucas/curnow/garlett/jamison were poor
- better players were Judd, scotland, gibbs, collins, joseph (pre-injury), armfield (despite mistakes), mclean servicable - not much else after that.
- Fast paced game early on, with 2 players injured relatively early we were always going to struggle with rotations. We fell away as the game wore on

FMD - the ants have ANOTHER BYE - how the !@#$%& do we get fitness/conditioning/game time into casboult, mitchell, davies & white?


I have watched the replay 4 times


Why?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:01 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:58 pm
Posts: 394
Location: Melton
Synbad wrote:
Ratten is a reactive coach.
He is overly defensive.
He tries to neutralise situations not win them.

Hes the dumbest coach going around.

Imagine bringing in Guus and allowing him a month to understand footy.

He would revolutionise football.

such a basic game... and Ratts cant understand it....

:screwy: :screwy: :screwy:


Synbad please get off your Ratten bashing for once and have a look at the game for what it was, there was absolutely nothing he could do with the personnel he had available once the ball was bounced.

We went in short in both defence and forward, once we lost Touhey and Walker that compounded the situation, surely you can see that, please enlighten me with the moves that could have been made that could have stopped Petrie and who we could have used as a genuine forward option, can you also tell me how we could cover the loss of Walker and Joseph prior to half time and still be able to keep our run up, please just give me a reasonable and logical analys of what could be done from the box to rescue the situation,just for something different, rather than pushing your dislikes.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:13 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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What was evident last night was the limited movement from the previous week.
We reverted back to the slow boundary movement and lack of flair.
Players didn't offer each other support and were just interested in running one way, (if that).
There was no player movement up ground and only Henderson as a focal point and also for a limited time.
The players are extroadinary undisiplined in and very lazy.
They look disinterested and make extroadinary bad decisions.
We lack leadership and courage.
Our foot and hand skills weak as is our mentality.
There is no team ethos or pride in the team mateship.
Our kicking for goal or the players actions is laughable.
We are more interested in giving a half meter handball to our team mate so we don't cop a hit ( better him than me mentality).

I could keep going but I have to take my prozac now.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:17 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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@ redback... you have to credit the Kangas for that

They went man on man when we had the ball which forced us to go wide, and spread effectively when they had it.

They were well coached... well drilled and nullified out strengths from the week before

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:58 pm
Posts: 394
Location: Melton
Centenaryblue wrote:
4thchicken wrote:
SHould be an interesting week here and around the club

FMD - the ants have ANOTHER BYE - how the !@#$%& do we get fitness/conditioning/game time into casboult, mitchell, davies & white?


The amount of byes for the reserves and their occurance every three or four weeks is ludicrous. Mitchell for example could have had 6 or 7 games under his belt by next week instead of 4. Lack of contionuity must be hurting some of the marginal players build some form and or press their cases. 18 sides playing eachother one and a half times together with a nuff nuff reserves scenario = Rubbish competition. Doesn't alter the fact that we are not good enough.


Could not agree more regarding the VFL, it is a @#$%&! circus, who gives a shit if Willimstown are playing West Perth in the [REDACTED] up cup, if they want to continue doing that reinstate a proper reserves competition with the sides being run by the Clubs and piss the VFL off to a stand alone competition.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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WOW wrote:
there are some basics in winning football matches consistently, which includes having a genuine marking target up front. Ratten has not cottoned on to this and after five years he will never learn. Midfield type players will only get you so far. Moving Henderson to the back line was a shocker. Keeping Duigan in the forward line was also plain wrong. It's short term thinking that impedes progress and doesn't allow your game plans to evolve and set you up for success. I think apart from our inability to stop soft goals (ie defensive pressure), our biggest problem is our terrible forward efficiency. Generally, our percentage of possession is quite good, but our inability to convert is woeful. This primarily comes down to a lack of system going forward and an inability to take marks in the forward 50. Needs to be rectified urgently. Relying on ruckmen or midgets to kick goals is fraught with danger and never stands up in finals anyway. Although, I am not a big fan, Thornton should have played last night.

I think Ratts would have a tall marking forward if there were one available. And I'm not including Thornton in that. In a few weeks we will have Waite, casboult and Mitchell all fit and firing but the season will be long wasted by then.

We need to reload for the Dogs and get some games into the people we want to play next year and beyond.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:25 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Posts: 7893
blues8182 wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Ratten is a reactive coach.
He is overly defensive.
He tries to neutralise situations not win them.

Hes the dumbest coach going around.

Imagine bringing in Guus and allowing him a month to understand footy.

He would revolutionise football.

such a basic game... and Ratts cant understand it....

:screwy: :screwy: :screwy:


Synbad please get off your Ratten bashing for once and have a look at the game for what it was, there was absolutely nothing he could do with the personnel he had available once the ball was bounced.

We went in short in both defence and forward, once we lost Touhey and Walker that compounded the situation, surely you can see that, please enlighten me with the moves that could have been made that could have stopped Petrie and who we could have used as a genuine forward option, can you also tell me how we could cover the loss of Walker and Joseph prior to half time and still be able to keep our run up, please just give me a reasonable and logical analys of what could be done from the box to rescue the situation,just for something different, rather than pushing your dislikes.


Crap. He couldn't do anything because the team is mentally shot. A little bit of pressure and we crumble. We look great in space but an opposition presses or put on pressure around the ball we are lost. We have no answer. THAT is the coaches fault/responsibility. This has been a constant eroding of belief in what we do. We aren't just losing we are getting thrashed. If it wasn't for some real individual talent from Judd, Betts we would losing by heaps more.

Dont sugar coat what is happening, we are shocking and something needs to be done.

Rattens reaction is always to shuffle the deck chairs. He has nothing else. Its like watching 80s football.

Henderson to defence. Gibbs to midfield to defence to forward. Betts to FF. McLean in McLean out. Duigan forward. Yarran back to forward. Lucas playing nowhere near his preferred position. AJ Tagging. Carrazzo our best ball winner tagging. Most sides don't tag at all. We always react to the opposition instead of playing our game.

Anyone who watches Carlton know prior to the game what Ratten will do. How easy must it be for the opposition coaches???

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5991
Location: Melbourne
blues8182 wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Ratten is a reactive coach.
He is overly defensive.
He tries to neutralise situations not win them.

Hes the dumbest coach going around.

Imagine bringing in Guus and allowing him a month to understand footy.

He would revolutionise football.

such a basic game... and Ratts cant understand it....

:screwy: :screwy: :screwy:


Synbad please get off your Ratten bashing for once and have a look at the game for what it was, there was absolutely nothing he could do with the personnel he had available once the ball was bounced.

We went in short in both defence and forward, once we lost Touhey and Walker that compounded the situation, surely you can see that, please enlighten me with the moves that could have been made that could have stopped Petrie and who we could have used as a genuine forward option, can you also tell me how we could cover the loss of Walker and Joseph prior to half time and still be able to keep our run up, please just give me a reasonable and logical analys of what could be done from the box to rescue the situation,just for something different, rather than pushing your dislikes.


I think as many others have said, Ratts isn't entirely to blame, but is far from blameless, he is one of the factors of why we are where we are.

In my view in order our problems are:

1. Sticks/the board
2. List Management/recruiting
3. Ratts (which ties into number 2 as surely he would have big say)

I know things went wrong with injuries last night, but Ratts even thinking we could replicate our setup of last week with no KP forwards was stupidity of the highest order.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:58 pm
Posts: 394
Location: Melton
ERNIE SOS wrote:
Come on Sticks make the call surely you could see tonight that Ratts and he,s coaching staff have to go .It was there poorest and dumbest performance i have ever seen from the coaches.


Ernie, please give me and idea of what options he had, it is amazing that you blokes want him to pull a Rabbit out of a hat when he hasn't even got a hat available.

The MC have made mistakes and some baffling decisions in the past, but I fail to see what else could have been done last night short of someone shooting North players with a snipers rifle from the crowd.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:28 pm 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
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Hornet wrote:
They were well coached... well drilled and nullified out strengths from the week before


Agree, as are most sides. It is easy to tell we aren't and that is an indictment on the coach. Every week we change something, kick short, kick long, be proactive, taller forward line, contested footy etc.

How about a game plan and style we stick to?

You will not beat an half decent side with what we dish up week in week out.

Seriously it is like watching suburban footy. :banghead:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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The cue went in the rack in the 2nd qtr when North worked back hard and clogged up our forward half - we aren't drilled well enough to pick this tactic apart and everything else falls apart as a consequence and the capitulation occurs.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:33 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:58 pm
Posts: 394
Location: Melton
Adam Chatfield wrote:
blues8182 wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Ratten is a reactive coach.
He is overly defensive.
He tries to neutralise situations not win them.

Hes the dumbest coach going around.

Imagine bringing in Guus and allowing him a month to understand footy.

He would revolutionise football.

such a basic game... and Ratts cant understand it....

:screwy: :screwy: :screwy:


Synbad please get off your Ratten bashing for once and have a look at the game for what it was, there was absolutely nothing he could do with the personnel he had available once the ball was bounced.

We went in short in both defence and forward, once we lost Touhey and Walker that compounded the situation, surely you can see that, please enlighten me with the moves that could have been made that could have stopped Petrie and who we could have used as a genuine forward option, can you also tell me how we could cover the loss of Walker and Joseph prior to half time and still be able to keep our run up, please just give me a reasonable and logical analys of what could be done from the box to rescue the situation,just for something different, rather than pushing your dislikes.


I think as many others have said, Ratts isn't entirely to blame, but is far from blameless, he is one of the factors of why we are where we are.

In my view in order our problems are:

1. Sticks/the board
2. List Management/recruiting
3. Ratts (which ties into number 2 as surely he would have big say)

I know things went wrong with injuries last night, but Ratts even thinking we could replicate our setup of last week with no KP forwards was stupidity of the highest order.


Adam, I am not discussing your first 3 points and you may be absolutely spot on with those points, what I am wanting to know, is what could have been done after the ball was bounced last night to change the outcome with the players they went in with?

I also don't think going in without a KP forward is part of the plan, we simply don't have anyone who could effectively play that role at the moment.

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