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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:36 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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DocSherrin wrote:
club29 wrote:
Nobody here was talking about this stuff in round 3.


That's crap...How many times do I have to say that they're not related? This isn't about on-field...this is off-field.

To me same thing

but thats why rd 3 didnt matter.. and the season playing out did

Two spanners is all it took.

(Sticks and Ratts)

You dont have cornerstones... it will come crashing down

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:50 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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http://www.aegismedia.com.au/contact/

harold.mitchell@aemedia.com

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:52 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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GWS wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Yep insignificant, stupid people like Sticks and myself just don't get it. I know, I know.


Now you're getting it... :thumbsup:


Always knew that people on TC are smarter, more influential and significant than Sticks. Again silly me.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:56 pm 
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
http://www.aegismedia.com.au/contact/

harold.mitchell@aemedia.com


I dont think an email campaign is going to do anymore than show him how dumb carlton supporters can be and piss him off

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:02 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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SurreyBlue wrote:
GWS wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Yep insignificant, stupid people like Sticks and myself just don't get it. I know, I know.


Now you're getting it... :thumbsup:


Always knew that people on TC are smarter, more influential and significant than Sticks. Again silly me.

Wow!!!!

influential and significant...

Neither of u happened to get the club to stay............. Sticks was part of the move...........

Look Surrey... its like this

how to not be influential and have no real friends is the wrong book....

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
http://www.aegismedia.com.au/contact/

harold.mitchell@aemedia.com


I dont think an email campaign is going to do anymore than show him how dumb carlton supporters can be and piss him off


Wasn't proposing one...someone asked how to contact him.

However, It may alert him to the fact that many fans think the incumbent Pres is even dumber.

:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Ultimately for Harold to come in Sticks would have to invite him into presidency.

Harold isnt going to make a song and dance about it assuming he even would entertain it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
http://www.aegismedia.com.au/contact/

harold.mitchell@aemedia.com


I dont think an email campaign is going to do anymore than show him how dumb carlton supporters can be and piss him off


Oh FFS! Don't be doing that! Look - Harold Mitchell is just one name. There are other smart, decisive men out there who get it too. Harold just has clout. This wasn't designed to be an attack on Stephen Kernahan, it's merely an argument as to why I believe the club isn't going forward, isn't living up to potential, isn't maximising its brand and is alienating the core supporters who supported it when it was down and out.

As I've said many times before, I view membership as an investment. What possible reason would I have to invest in Carlton? Until they prove to me that they can effectively and cohesively operate and run a business with the customer in mind, I won't be reinvesting. The President doesn't have a good record. The buck stops with him. I hate spinning wheels.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:31 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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DocSherrin wrote:
http://docsherrin.posterous.com/sticks-the-grand-illusion


This week marks four years since Dick Pratt stepped aside from the Carlton presidency for reasons pertaining to health (and the ACCC), and therefore four years since Stephen Kernahan assumed the title of 'interim President'. Although Pratt stepped aside and then tragically lost his battle with cancer, I still think of 'Sticks' as the interim President.

Since 2008, there have been the occasional murmuring that a 'real' President was going to be appointed. Whether that was fact, rumour or innuendo - we all heard the the names of Ahmed Fahour being bandied around when he left the National Australia Bank, Harold Mitchell prior to his involvement with the start-up Melbourne Rebels, Dick Pratt's son Anthony and his son-in-law Ruffy Germinder whom many of us believed to be being groomed for the Presidency after receiving a place at the board table without having to go through a member vote - something becoming synonymous with the Carlton Football Club.

None of this has come to fruition. What we have is a President who has been a board member for four more years than he was a player. A man who is a legend of the club, but a man who is in serious danger of having some of that gloss he earned as a player being eroded by what he has done (or hasn't done) as a President.

You can't question Stephen Kernahan's passion for the Carlton Football Club. But passion can often be a hindrance, particularly when your mates are involved. Being decisive is not something I'd attribute to Stephen Kernahan. His indecisiveness at key stages of our history has altered our path and unfortunately not for the better. The energy within the place might be great but I'd rather be decisive with 85% certainty (which is far more beneficial to growth), than being 100% sure 10 months from now if there is a structured and trained group in place. We saw it during his term as Vice-President. His struggles with the sacking of Wayne Brittain, his reluctance in 2006 to do the same to Denis Pagan, his reluctance to let Scott Camporeale go, his involvement with the Elliott board when the club was brought to its knees, his siding with the sinking Smorgon ship when the board was nothing but a basketcase and his inability to lead when waring internal factions threatened to put the club on the back pages for all the wrong reasons.

Sticks is good at many things. But one of them isn't being Carlton President at this point in time. It's now 2012. The Carlton Football Club I crave is one where the deep credibility of President, CEO, GM, Board and coach encourage supporters to trust them with their hard-earned dollars, one opposition clubs respect and fear and one where the Carlton brand is positioned where it rightfully belongs. None of those are visibly present at the club today.

There's a scene in the movie, 'Days of Thunder' where Robert Duval's character is trying to stress the importance of doing things within the plan and everyone understanding their role within that plan. Duval's character, crew chief for a NASCAR team, is explaining to Tom Cruise, the driver, that driving as fast as he possibly can will not win races. It doesn't seem logical at first, but as Duval explains, racing is more about everything all working together. The team loses if there is a breakdown, if one area is not in sync with the others. Duval explains that if he drove 50 laps Duval's way (slower) and 50 laps Cruise's way (pedal to the metal), Duval's method would win every time. They go through the exercise in the movie and at the end of two sets of 50 laps, Cruise yields a faster time driving more slowly, just as Duval assured him. The reason, Duval explains, is that driving as fast as possible causes the temperature of the tyres to rise, they begin to melt, become slick and spin faster but the car doesn't travel as fast. It's the same in a footy club - on-field and off it. If everyone is off doing their own thing, there's lots of motion, but not much progress. So much of this teams efforts (on-field & off-field) are reactionary. In essence, we're not going backward as a club, but we're not really going forward with conviction either. We're merely spinning tyres.

At the time of the overthrow of Jack Elliott, Sticks chose to stay with the board because he loves his club and wanted to help. The majority of voters elected to keep him on the board. It was very much a case of "you can't treat our favourite son like that". It was as if Kernahan received a Presidential pardon after each failed administration. Later, post-Smorgon..."we need Carlton people" was the reoccurring theme, so again, he stayed.

Image

There's still no getting away from the fact that Sticks is a legend of the Carlton Football Club. But I waited with baited breath for the likes of Dick Pratt to tell him he would be used much more in a marketing/media "face of the club" type role. His worth would be invaluable there. And he could still be a board member, but not President. We often discuss how Eddie McGuire lead Collingwood out of the mire and into the most recognizable sports brand in Australia. Twenty years ago, when Sticks was still plying his trade across the forward line, Eddie was a hard-working Channel 10 sports reporter who was known for being tipped off (by the police) when the police were on their way to the Chevron where he was, in all likelihood, trying to pick-up the left-overs in the early hours of the morning with his good mate Ross Glendenning. So what happened? Eddie was always street smart, and smart enough to surround himself with good people. Kernahan had a leg-up as well. Employed as a stockbroker - he left in the early 90's and was offered a job by Dick Pratt at Visy. A couple of years later he started - again with some 'Carlton assistance' his printing company which became very successful. So he knows business, and he certainly understands the football club, but unlike McGuire he doesn't know how to harness it, grow it and drive it forward. The people around Sticks at Carlton didn't know how either.

Did Pratt? No. By the time Richard Pratt came along as proclaimed savior and 'galvanised' the club with strong words and a little money, he wasn't of sound mind to be President of the Carlton Football Club. As great a man as he was, the accounts of his tenure at the top are downright scary.

"When it came to sourcing new talent, he'd ask 'Who's the best player in the league in the position in question? Then he'd say 'Well let's just buy him' and we'd say 'Dick, you can't just buy players anymore, it doesn't work like that" - Former board member Paul Littman.

Then there's the matter of debt. We've still a large chunk left to clear. Much of it left over from an administration now a decade removed. But much of the debt is being removed by Bruce Mathieson, without whom we'd be in grave danger. The philanthropy still needs to be managed, but it's philanthropic nonetheless. Put together with Visy money, and the club is largely being kept going by Pratt/Mathieson and AFL TV monies. Other clubs would be envious, but we're not other clubs remember? We're Carlton, f**k the rest...I hope for Sticks' sake that's not his Presidential legacy.

Unlike Brett Ratten, Kernahan hasn't left Carlton since arriving in 1986. He has either been player or board member since. Sometimes you see things a little clearer when you step away from them for a while. It's something Sticks probably should have done post-Elliott era when he had no right to be re-elected to the board given what had transpired. Unfortunately, he thinks he owes the club something. I don't think Stephen Kernahan owes the club anything. His efforts won't be forgotten, but we need someone at the top who doesn't just present a 'Blueprint' for future success. We need someone who owns it and instills that ownership and belief within every single person within the organisation that this is the way forward. Someone like Harold Mitchell, although I fear that bridge has already been burned. Sticks should know that 'hanging on until all the good stuff we've done delivers a Premiership' would be selfish. We're barely doing the basics with him in charge, yet internally - the belief is they're on the right track. It is time for change at the top. And as much admiration I have for his love of the club I love, I don't want to see Carlton's longest serving Captain becoming Carlton's longest serving President.


Thanks for that post.

I think Sticks does owe the club something.

He owes it to the club to find a bona fide President and then stand aside.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:38 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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club29 wrote:
This stuff always comes up when we lose a few games.


1. Scrutiny on Sticks as a board member, let alone as President, is hardly new. Go back to Black Friday fallout and you'll see plenty of questions were raised then. That's a decade ago. Also, IIRC both Harrison and Moulton suggested prior to their election to the board that it was time for Sticks to move on. Then, from what I can piece together, they got on the board and saw the light … Sticks has too much passion to be moved on. Whatever.

2. So after a string of unacceptable performances would you prefer people just pat each other on the back and say, "she'll be right mate"? Of course there is more scrutiny after a loss, because people want to discuss what the problems are and how to fix them. Sure it might all be a bit of a pissing contest at times, but it's better than continual self congratulation.

It's time.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:05 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Wangers wrote:
Great post, Doc.
Agree 150%.
How do we get in touch with Harold?
This board has taken this club to where we are now, and in many ways have done a good job from where we were to where we are. However, they have failed in their duty in 2 areas. 1. we haven't built a sustainable business model. Mathieson's donation of a pub network is not a sustainable business model. It's a donation and a revenue stream that is diminishing like cigarettes. :smoking: 2. failed to groom a successor to the President. Any good business needs to have talent in the ranks (board level) to ensure fresh blood, ideas, and leadership is given the opportunity to enable the club keep innovating and growing.

Er.. you left out a pretty important one, namely......... 3. failed to cause success in the only field the business exists to fulfill, namely on-field. That and everything associated with it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:26 am 
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Harry Vallence

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This is the same Harold Mitchell who is on record as predicting the next Aleague TV deal will beat the NRL one right? Yeah nah.

Sticks is doing fine. Great to see the Vultures circiling the entire club when we lose a couple of games though. Seriously. Supporters my backside.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:44 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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The_Wookie wrote:
This is the same Harold Mitchell who is on record as predicting the next Aleague TV deal will beat the NRL one right? Yeah nah.

Sticks is doing fine. Great to see the Vultures circiling the entire club when we lose a couple of games though. Seriously. Supporters my backside.

"Lose a couple of games" is what we did in 1995. This is more in the realm of "the wheels have fallen off".

Vultures, Supporters my backside. A little bit of playing the man there.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:33 am 
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Bruce Doull
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" a couple of games:" lol
"vultures"
"hes doing fine"

:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:52 am 
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Harry Vallence

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moshe25 wrote:
The_Wookie wrote:
This is the same Harold Mitchell who is on record as predicting the next Aleague TV deal will beat the NRL one right? Yeah nah.

Sticks is doing fine. Great to see the Vultures circiling the entire club when we lose a couple of games though. Seriously. Supporters my backside.

"Lose a couple of games" is what we did in 1995. This is more in the realm of "the wheels have fallen off".

Vultures, Supporters my backside. A little bit of playing the man there.


This whole thread is dedicated to playing one man.

And yes its a couple of games. Its not the end of the season. And its not likely to be Kernahans fault unless hes the dude out there on the night giving away moronic free kicks and unable to kick straight to save himself.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:53 am 
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Trevor Keogh

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Did I just bump into a Richmond thread.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:00 am 
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I understand the Synbad argument of on-field and off-field being one and the same, but I don't think like that. I like to separate the football department from the other business operations of the club - and particularly the marketing bit. Because everything you do in marketing should be to win the customer. But how does Carlton expect to win the customer when they won't even give the customer a vote in board elections? How can a President release a strategic plan and within months not adhere to it? How can he and his board continually get involved in operational matters that they hired competent managers to do? How does an interim President last four years? How does a President with an indecisive record at board level last through three board upheavals even when he's aligned himself with the losing party? How is he the only one remaining from the Elliott board? Because he is a favorite son? Surely not.

It's not personal, it's business - but the average apathetic Carlton supporter says 'Well, if you don't like it - go support Richmond'...the answer to that of course is that we have become Richmond. The reactiveness, the mistakes, the lack of business discipline and know-how. Your biggest worry as leader of a club should be when you're telling yourself everything is going ok. That's what they're telling themselves right now. Despite the on-field dramas, everything's ok off-field. They told themselves at the start of the year that the 'sponsorship book' is full. Since when is a sponsorship book full? Get creative for flowers sake. Build new relationships. Don't presume that Hyundai or even Visy or even Bruce Mathieson will be there for you tomorrow.

If you, as a supporter believe that everything is fine, then perhaps it's you who doesn't really care about the club.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:02 am 
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Trevor Keogh

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I saw the annual report and saw growth rates - facts. What did you see? Yes - Richmond.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:06 am 
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Geoff Southby

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j.scarponi wrote:
I saw the annual report and saw growth rates - facts. What did you see? Yes - Richmond.


So simple. And yet so wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:23 am 
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Bruce Doull
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j.scarponi wrote:
I saw the annual report and saw growth rates - facts. What did you see? Yes - Richmond.

You let your club go and you become angy Richmond
You have been angry so long you dont care anymore .. youre now Melbourne

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