kingkerna wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
......
If you're going to ask me a question relating to something I said, then please use the QUOTE function. Otherwise, it's so hard to follow and makes it impossible to debate.
Anyway, you seem to assume that I'm saying something about getting rid of the coach during the year. I haven't done that at all, so you're arguing with a straw man.
If you want to debate my point - here it is ...... again:
- It's 16 years since we won a flag.
- It's 13 years since we played in a GF.
- It's 11 years since we finished in the top 4.
- In that time we've had 3 opportunities to pick a great coach;
- In that time, we've had 1 no2 pick, 3 no1 picks, 1 no6 pick, 1 no9 pick, 1 no12 pick PLUS Judd PLUS fluking Simmo and Robbo with (relatively) late picks;
- In that time, we've also had a bit of luck with some good rookie picks; eg Betts, Garlett, Thornton;
- In that time, 10 other teams have won flags (including basket cases like North Melbourne and Port Adelaide);
- In that time, Collingwood has managed to play in 2 losing GFs, bottom out, rebuild, win a flag, and stay on top;
- In that time WC has managed to bottom out, rebuild to win a flag, bottom out again after losing arguably the 2 best footballers in the country, and rebuild AGAIN to be near the top again.
I could go on, but the bottom line is that whether it's our recruiting, our development, our mentoring, our coaching, or some combination of these ....... Carlton seems to be a dud organisation. It's main mission is winning flags and it's failing miserably, while at the same time pissing off a large number of supporters.
I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand. This is all I'm saying.
But when you attack me for every little point that EVERYONE ELSE you disagree with is saying, it's hard to keep the debate on track.
WE ARE NOT DOING WELL. And, pointedly, we are definitely not improving. I'll accept (but still disagree with) that we're treading water, but to say we're improving, as some on this thread have suggested, is almost as funny as having a tattooed Vanessa Amarosi advertise Clear skin products (which I saw on TV today - no kidding!!!).
Probably the most lucid and best summation of where this club is at currently.
Our leadership is failing at all all levels and unless this is addressed we will not have a hope in hell of improving.
He forgot to mention "in that time we got arse raped by the AFL"
Oh.... Poor us! Arse raped? Let's actually examine the impact of that.
1. We missed out on picks 1 and 2 and a 2nd round pick in the 2002 draft.a) We got Simmo at pick 45 - he's played over 160 games and will probably be placed in the B&F (if not win it) and is in the Leadership Group; this is way over the odds for a pick 45;
b) We got Fisher at a pick in the 70s or 80s - he played 99 games; again, not bad for such a low pick;
2. We missed out on a 1st and 2nd round pick in the 2003 draft.Because of this and whatever was the net loss from 1 above we were very bad in 2005-2007, which caused us to get
THREE[/u] no.1 picks in a row - UNPRECEDENTED IN AFL HISTORY, and more than sufficient offset for the "arse-raping of point 1 above and this point 2.
[u]3. We got fined just under one million dollars
Easily been offset since by the generosity of Messrs Pratt, Mathieson, and a few others.
I am continually hearing about this piece of
ancient history, how poor old Carlton got done back in 2002. It was 10 years ago, has been completely offset by picks and $$ since, and is therefore completely irrelevant to what's happening now.
To those who still bemoan it and have some grudge against Demetriou because of it, I say build a bridge. Time to get over it and move on with life.
Agree. Used to cringe when Pagan would bring it up. Kind of went against his "Dont tell me about the labour pains, just show me the baby" credo.
You can add that in the first rounder will lost in 2003 was a bonus pick only as will still got pick 2 (Walker), as well as getting the freebie of Nick Stevens in the pre-season draft.
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