They have done well when used properly.

I've heard that's a really great book.

Must get hold of a copy...

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Kouta thats's assuming that Waite along with 3 guys that haven't played a game would have had any more of an impact anyway.

As for their midfield, we are missing Murphy and Carrazzo, yesterday they didn't have Shuey, but can still run with Priddis, Masten, Swift, Rosa, Selwood, Selwood, Kerr and Gaff. Then there is also Koby Stevens who cant break in there. Sure they lost to Brisbane yesterday, but it's the trend and not the one of effort that we are dealing with here.

Injuries would be an excuse for why we aren't going to win the flag, but not an excuse for not being able to be competitive against Adelaide and in particular Port.

Duigan, Laidler, Henderson, Waite would of course of made a difference at either end, but nothing would have changed in the middle. Even without Kruezer, Warnock/Hampson should still easily have covered for Renouf/Redden. If not, then why bother investing so much in draft picks etc on ruckman. Worrying that we got done badly by the Saints who went with Jason Blake, and Adelaide who went with our 4th choice guy from 2010.

Carrazzo/Murphy was all that missing from the midfield, and in fairness they were missing McCarthy who has been good all year and on top of that Boak has announced that he is going in for surgery to have a foot problem fixed that has been holding him back all year which makes the effort even worse.

Hartlett, Thomas, Stewart, Ebert, Cornes, Pearce, Broadbent even Pfeiffer! looking good against us cant all be traced back to injuries.

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"They're [REDACTED]'

I can loan you mine if you want......

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

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But JS ... a few years ago we had a forward line that would occassionally slaughter a decent opponent. The "system" boiled down to "kick it too Fev", but if he was on he was so talented it worked.

I don't think that by "system" they're really talking about the line up of talls, taggers etc I think it's more about playing as a team. For example, consider a forward line of player 'x', 'y' and 'z'. 'x' leads somewhere predecided knowing that he's unlikely to get it, but that it will open up a hole for player 'y' to lead into so long as player 'z' blocks his
opponent. If say 'z' gets injured - no biggie just pick another guy to do the job.

I don't see this in our team. I've pretty much assumed that this was because I was too close ... "my team" bias. I've also assumed much the same thing from the other TCers who have been saying the same thing for some time. However ... when an independent observer of some note comes up with the same idea ...

I'm thinking that perhaps we've got too much "talent" and all our players want to be "player y" and go for the ball. Hence the "system" doesn't happen.

On West Coast - LeCras and Kennedy are their key outs. Nicoski and Emberly were playing for their careers last season. Josh Hill has covered for LeCras, Cox has spent more time forward (Lycett has also played) effectively covering for Kennedy.

They have mainly kept their midfield and backline intact.

Collingwood are well drilled but significant injuries might prevent them going all the way.

Having said all that, they both seem to play to the same gameplan every week. Something that we are either not doing or our gameplan is rubbish. I think it is the latter. Get Roos and/or Malthouse in as Coaching consultants now. Someone with a proven track record and isn't inside the club everyday. Get some perspective and fresh eyes on our squad

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when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth

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Again we played in a home final last year and it wasnt due to no system.

Gee thanks.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Yes, but with the list we haven we should have made top 4? And we probably not making the 8 this year. It's about getting the best out of your list and we are not.

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TC suffers from the social media illness - the death of respect and constructive discourse by keyboard.

System v Talent was evident most in 2010.

Collingwood - whose theme of the year was "they have no A-graders" played against St Kilda whose cliche was - "they have no bottom six".

Of course as neutral observers we were basing these comments on purely talent, ie 'who looks good when they have the ball' rather than as you cant do when sitting at home - pay any attention to the other 98% of the game that each player plays when he doesn't have the ball in his hand.

If the ball bounced the way of Stephen Milne, we'd all be talking about Baker, Blake, Eddy, Dempster, Dawson, Ray, Peake, McQualter, Kozi, Jones, Gram, Gilbert etc as Premiership players.

We all hate Ross Lyon, because we watch 17 other sides to be entertained, rather than giving a stuff whether they win or lose. We all went Fremantle to go back to how they used to be, because well it doesn't bother us that they've won just 2 finals in nearly 20 years. All we cared about is how exciting they were.

At the end of the day none of really know whether a Bryce Gibbs has more of an impact than a Sean Dempster, or the other way say a Mitch Robinson over a Nick DalSanto. We just think that the most talented, is the therefore the "better" player.

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"They're [REDACTED]'

You're taking a liberty to say that Waite plus one power KPF wouldn't make a difference. No one tipped that Crameri would step up and be this good. Or that Dawes would help take the heat off Cloke and get a big defender. Even Leigh Brown played his role to a T as a ruckman/third tall forward. Not saying that Mitchell is a star, but he was reportedly looking good before his injury. Walker gave his contested marking a wrap before his latest injury. Think Casboult's marking was reportedly even better than Mitchell's. Structure was better in that final against WC with Setanta our tall target.

Rucks are good if you have the midfield talent and desire there. We don't it if we have Curnow, Mclean and Ellard up against players who have more ability, form and confidence. Judd, Robinson and Simpson can't do it all. Not excusing our lack of effort and desire, yet injuries in areas that we can't cover has combined to make a perfect cluster @#$%&!.

Players are distraught and lose confidence when they work their btts off and win the ball and look up forward to see no one is presenting other than Eddie Betts on two men...it spirals out of control in game.

You do realise that our biggest problem (and Ratten agrees) is that we are getting thrashed around the stoppages and clearances.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

Yes..absolutely but it extrapolates and deteriorates after the first quater since Waite has been injured hence no forward structure.

Players start first quater pumped up try to win ball stats are pretty good.. working butts off, winning ball look up no forwards to kick to, turn ball over opposition defence easy mark.

Try again early second quater...same sh$t.. and deteriorates at rate of knots where they give up as they know nothing will come of it.Frustration and exhasperation sets in by end of second qtr confidence has become abysmal.

It's a sad situation

So the players are giving up....tanking hey?....

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

yeah I've bung on about that book to anyone who will listen too. Great read. Trying to get my hands on Outliers too which it references.

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#DopeThenStash

System & Structures were smashing our Talent way before injuries became the sugarcoaters mantra...

No doubt we've picked up on this new fad and will perfect it in a couple years time... only to find it then superseded

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

Systems and structures got us within a bees dick of a prelim final last year.

Ok.. ill bite..

What happened this year??

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The sky fell?