Quite an interesting comment from Gerard Whateley on 774 this morning. He compared Carlton with clubs like Essendon*, West Coast and Collingwood. He said that they relied on system whereas we relied on talent. If they lost players then they could more easily replace them and the new guy would know his role. Subsequently overall team performance wasn't diminished too much. When we lose too many players, or those in the top group lose form, we're in trouble.

I'm a traditional supporter of the incumbent, but that's damning for Ratten and Co.

I know it's what quite a few TCers have been saying for some time, but I mention it because to me it seems to have more credence when coming from a "neutral" observer. (with apologies to those TCers who I'm starting to think might be right!!).

PS - I'm not trying to start another Rat Bash, but Whateley has been quite bullish on Carlton for sometime and I think his subtle change of opinion is worthy of comment.

I think he's summed it up very well. Look at last year...we had Murphy and Judd playing out of their skins and we still couldn't break into the top 4. An injury to one and slight form drop to the other and we're [REDACTED]. West Coast lose most of their forward line and they're still doing fine. The filth lose key defenders and don't even have Swan and still beat Adelaide. We have been back in the draft long enough to have developed good depth. Instead we re-sign the list cloggers...re-sign players who we know aren't capable when we're up against the top (or even mediocre) teams. What sort of list management is that?

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Its Judd based list management....hasn't worked....you still need structures drilled into the team as a whole....when you have the ball and when you don't....randomness is for tattslotto junkies....it won't win premierships....I'll repeat this for the hundreth time when watching us play focus on our fwd 50 entries....have not improved one iota in the last 5 years....it relies on Walker using the force to do the unbelievable and Betts kicking goals out of his arse....yeah Kev system trumps talent....because you can't recruit 22 Judds anymore....teams are made up of role-players now not superstars....

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Paul Roos with a bunch of lesser lights achieved continuous finals campaigns and a flag with a system of play.

We are shit, but Essendon* and West Coast both lost in the weekend. WC have 5 players on their injury list and lost to Brisbane. Essendon* have 5 on their list and lost to Melbourne. A break down of their system?

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when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth

Feelgood Hit of the Winter - GHRP-2, GHRP-6, CJC-1295, AOD-9604, Humanofort and Hexarelin

I'll tell you in 6 weeks time

They lost by less than a goal in a 4 quarter contest.

We, as is becoming the norm, were out of our game inside 30 minutes of actual time.

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Wallsy and Kouta say we don't have enough "depth" = upcoming talent

‘‘To be a top-four team means that your depth runs with quality to 30, and I think Carlton’s quality of depth cuts out at player 24 or 25.’ - Wallsy

I actually think it may be lower than that with perhaps 20-22 quality players?

The pressure of being a premiership contender can become a burden. ‘‘If that is an issue for them, then that is a bit of a problem,’’ Koutoufides said.

‘‘I would hope they would be able to take it on board and handle the pressure, but certainly the added pressure has had a little bit of an effect on them.

‘‘If that is the case, then they really have to mature as a team,’’ he added.

from http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/b ... .html#poll

WC weren't without Lynch, Darling and Kennedy. Club wouldn't have tipped Waite, Rowe, Casboult and Mitchell to all be unavailable at the one time. The Eagles' midfield has remained in tact.

26 fit players available this week if we're lucky.

List management that's been compromised by the last two drafts. If we had cut list cloggers such as Thornton, Collins, Bower and Joseph, then we would have Buckley, McInnes, McCarthy and Kerr out there. That wouldn't improve the situation. Watson and Bootsma aren't ready, but had to play.

Every side was scouring second tier leagues for players. That's why Austin and Sellar got another go. Late picks such as James Magner haven't even shown any more than Curnow did last year. Apparently the replacement is bound to be a better bet.

Whateley is on the money.
This will be a stupid analogy but it's kind of like a platoon of soldiers. They'll head out with a radio operator, and if he is incapacitated someone else will be trained in the role and take over.

Carlton lose a radio operator and they shrug and march on with the radio left lying in the dust.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Pies have just lost pendles as well....that's basically their whole midfield taken out now....have a feeling they won't be shedding tears or using injuries as an excuse....

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Bet they remain in the contest for more than half an hour as well.

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I hope Essendon* folds.

BOUNCE by Matthew Syed.

Read it. It will explain everything, particularly why Roos and Malthouse managed to win flags with less "talented" lists, and why Lyon almost won 2 flags with a list containing the likes of Blake and Dawson and Ray.

And why Carlton couldn't win a flag between 1973 and 1978 with Jezza, Perce, Walls, Swan McKay, Keogh, Armstrong, Ashman, Southby, Austin, Davis, etc, etc in the team.

System + attitude + practice >>>>>>>>>> talent.

Ron Barassi: "talent is something that comes to you out of the eye of your father's cock". What he was saying was that he doesn't rate talent.

I'd rather Nick Maxwell and Tom Harley than a million Laurie Angwins. If you get their attitudes right and you drill them in a repeatable, workable system, they'll beat the Angwins.

Unfortunately, we haven't learnt that. Consequently, we keep looking for the next big thing, whether it's Gerard Healey or Brent Harvey or Nick Stevens or Chris Judd or Boak or Cloke or any other Travis xxx-oak. And then we'll bring them in to the same lack of system and then eventually blame them for things going awry.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

The most disappointing thing about our 4 losses this year was that it was quite obvious early in the game that the Blues were in trouble and showed no fight. Our performances since the Collingwood game have been abysmal.

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Hooked on The Blues

And I thought it was the training workload.

They were compromised but you still had some clubs having a crack at finding talent instead of once more having minimal picks. Why discount the 2009 draft? Lucas, Davies and Kerr..........................then look at Geelong. More picks and better picks - midfielders/forwards...Menzel, Duncan, Christensen, Vardy...they aren't early picks, they aren't spectacular....but they put their heads over the ball, they're footy smart, and importantly they're all pretty good kicks of the ball. Instead we get Lucas, Davies and Kerr. The Davies pick after having Bower/Thornton/Russell on the list and then picking White as well...it's staggering list management. Whilst other teams were building their midfield depth we were off doing something else.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

I back the club 100% to get out of the rut and perform well over the next month which is as the papers say season defining - I tend to think we will perform very well between rounds 16-24 and just fall out of top four around 6th.. But 28 fit players and no tall forwards in the mix available is a ludicrous situation.

Mate I love your optimism but you have gone past that to blind faith.


This is from another thread on Ratts take on the game where he explains where he thought things went wrong.
These were his moves.
Do thay seem rational to you.

No mention of why Simpson tagged Pearce, when Armfield is perfectly suited to that
No mention of Paul Bower starting in the forward line
No mention of why we were struggling for hard balls and Mitch Robinson was sent to full-forward (or the Graveyard in our 50 metre arc)
No mention of why Gibbs was on Justin Westhoff and not being pushed up to at least HBF...
No mention of why AW has become a very selfish player and shoots for goal at every opportunity (al Adel Taraabt from QPR for all those soccer fans)

Sure you dont expect press conferences to last one hour and discuss every single detail... do you?

Blind faith or not, I WANT to stick by the club during this hard time.

Agree Moshe it is similar sentiment to what we have been saying in the mid 70s thread about talent