..definitely need a turn around in form from our coaches/MC, otherwise the 'judd' era will wind up sooner rather than later.. ..judd has either 1/2 years left in him, or possibly 4/5.. ..a lot will hinge upon the 'brains' trust..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

I'll ask a difficult hindsight question to people. Who would've just given the Eagles picks 1, 3 and 20 for Judd and kept Kennedy if they could have their time over again? Especially knowing now how our ruck strength turned out in hindsight. Might not have mattered this year with our injuries but still. A ruckman at FF isn't the answer. Nothing there kicking 50 goals in a hurry.

As a disclaimer I was pumping for us to give pick 3, 20 and Kennedy to the Eagles at the time. Purely a hindsight question.

Watson will turn out ok. just have to wait a few years.

Judd needs to play wing/HF to preserve his career for as long as possible. His last year with the Eagles he played good footy at FF while he was stuck there with OP.

I'm waiting for our coaching staff to put him as loose man at HB...lol!

1 and 3 would have done the trick.

Kennedy and Scott Selwood for Kreuzer and Army

Sorry Mil
Do where my heart on my sleeve. Do rant and rave.
Life constantly changes
Thats why your footy club you support is great
Because your support doesnt change
I will always support the club but I dont support the people running it.
Its run by people who arnt good enough
Therefore I have lost interest until those people put themselves out before the inevitable.

You think we would of learnt from the Elliott years and giving a 2 year extension on Pagan's contract when we won the Wizard Cup

But we havent

As for Warnock I simply dont know what you see in him. He plays with a pea heart.

I didnt become a member this year because I dont like the way the club is run.
And I wont become a member until Ratts and Sticks vacate their positions or are thrown out .

Judd hasn't been the same player since the first half of last year... call it coincidence, but having a child softens the hardest of men.

I remember watching an interview pre season, maybe The_Wookie has it in his collection, of where he stated that footy isn't his main priority these days. He revealed that he used to lose sleep at the prospect of not living up to expectations and winning a flag with Carlton... he also revealed that's not the case any longer. Make of that what you will...

As great as he's been for the club in general up to now, this trade will start to look like a negative the more we stagnate.

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

I trace it back to the Geelong game last year when he picked up that foot injury - hasn't been the same since IMO. The problem he has is that crash and bash and dash is his mojo and he's not going to be able to be put out to pasture as a half forward. Its not his game.

I don't regret trading for Juddy but I definitely think the way he is revered both inside and outside the club has been a negative. Ratten calling him 'the champ' in public and the huge onus and focus on him is at odds with a good team culture i feel. Not sure Juddy does anything to rectify it too, he strikes me as a self possessed type of guy. But hey, I'm a long way away from it all.

Really disappointing couple of months it's been.

Judd turns 30 next year.
Ratten's coaching career is almost terminal.

Everyone of us had some hope that this era would yield us a flag, but it's now evident that it won't. The old line that we've 'come from spoons to winning a final' is garbage that doesn't reflect what this era could have yielded for us if managed differently.

The writing has been on the wall for a long time. There has been an unhealthy attitude that 'it will just happen' with Juddy and the number 1's. This attitude has manifested in the way we've continually had our pants pulled down in games whenever we think we're about to move into the top bracket. Losing big games has become a hallmark of this current group - a direct result of the 'it will just happen' mentality.

Some of the backslapping at the club after beating lowly opponents has been astonishing, particularly in games last year where obvious structural issues were papered over by being flat track bullies.

And anybody who questioned the club's direction was told to shut up. An employee of the club who posts on this site demonstrated the 'criticism is unreasonable' attitude. "It's all good - we're flying".

Well, the emperor had no clothes and it's now becoming pretty obvious.

The Ratten/Judd era is looming as a massive failure, and where the club goes from here I am not sure.

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

Guess you haven't been paying attention lately?

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BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Just hilarious that the poster in question loves bagging Synbad for going AWOL after a win....conspicuous by his absence!

I am not sure you could criticize the Judd trade. He won 3 b&fs one brownlow and last year he was voted best player in the comp by the other players. Kennedy has played one good season and Chris masten is pretty good but carried along by Kerr, priddis and shuey.

Warnock for pick 24 was OK. IIRC we rated Robinson inside our best 10 that year so even if we had kept pick 24 we still would have drafted Robbo. That year we added 4 players in our best 22 so certainly a good draft / trade period.

agree the last two drafts have been strangely unbalanced. No mids taken in last two drafts and as I posted in another thread no mids drafted or traded in last 3 years who are part of our best 22. (brock and lucas not there) in fact you could argue we are minus one as grigg has gone. Also have not found a key fwd which is a gaping hole particularly considering waite's injury propensity.

Midfield has been overrated internally. Depth a serious issue without carazz and Murphy. Scotland may have jumped the shark, Curnow struggling and Gibbs simply not able to play mid. Brock no good, Lucas has Not come on.

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Go Blues

I think Sticks, Swan and Ratts should hold their position to the end of the season. Top 4 (prelim) or move on.
No being gutless and ditching their plans now. No letting the players off. No quitting !!!
Sick of quitters after watching 22 of them last night and reading all these posts of people wanting coaches and administrators to quit because things have gotten a bit tough drive me insane. We need those in charge to set an example and be strong.
Let the players know its up to them to work their arses off along with the coaches to turn things around. Work as a team.
If we can go from being a gun team in round 3 to crap in round 10 then their is no reason we can't go back the other way and reclaim the form we had early in the season.

Starts at the top and filters down.

This can happen to a house of cards.

No foundations.

Excuses... too young.. need time... injuries..players are soft....the Dome etc etc !!

No excuses!!!.... its time.

Lamenting with excuses.

This club is weak!!!... and its weak because they have no ethos of winning.

Οὐκ ἔφη (δε) τοὺς Λακεδαιμονίους ἐρωτᾶν πόσοι εἰσὶν οἱ πολέμιοι, ἀλλὰ ποῦ εἰσίν.


Spartans.... "anyone.. anytime... anywhere.. no matter how many!!!"

Warrior ethos...

No excuses...!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Pretty good post there Simon, makes a lot of sense and I agree with most of it.

Can you just tell me one thing though - as it is a massive bug bear of mine - why is it always "Judd turns 30 next year" as opposed to "Judd doesn't turn 31 until the end of the 2014 season"?? Is it just a glass half-empty thing?

The fact is that many players play well into their early 30's and still have a big impact. Sure, a player like Judd will probably be past his peak but he physically prepares himself better than most in the AFL and I reckon he possibly has at least 4 good years left in him.

There is still scope to win a flag or two with him in the team, but I doubt that Ratts will be there with him if/when it happens.

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"If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself" - Henry Ford

To be totally honest with everyone I was never 100% comfortable with the judd trade ... do you trade up potentialy 3 very good players for a super star and a good player ... what is better 3 very good players in your best 22 or a super star and a good player.

I believe Judd personally elevated us 3 spots on the ladder in his first season. From there it has been small incremental gains along the way, till we get to a standstill at 5th. For us to get top 2 we would require a season where just about everything falls our way. Unfortunately things have gone pear shaped.

I feel very safe when I see Laidler within a close vicinity to the ball and safer when it is in his hands. Don't under value his contribution.

Along with Henderson they have the best aerial judgment at the club. The other injured players are leaving a hole as well.

What the injuries are showing is that we go from A grade to C grade ... the pies at least have very good B graders to temporarily fill their breach ... brilliant recruiting.

Our recruiting / list management seems to be all over the shop ... through drafting and trading we have spent picks 1, 17 and 24 on ruckmen ... the tigers spent less on Maric and he is doing very well. We lose Fevola and pick up a dozen half back flankers to replace him. We have smalls that are not quick and cannot kick and talls that struggle in the air and lack a presence.

I've obviously not expressed myself clearly enough if you think I'm criticizing the Judd trade.

The Judd trade was a blessing and probably the best thing that's happened to the club since 1999.

This thread is about the era of his career as a Carlton player, and its coincidence with the era of his coach Brett Ratten. This thread is about how our attempt to build a premiership team around Judd and our high picks has faltered, and looms as a failure that could have been avoided.

This is unacceptable and should be unpalatable to all Carlton people.

And it is becoming ever so clear that heads need to roll at the top of the Carlton Football Club, because those occupying our highest offices are unfortunately not very good at their jobs.

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

The Judd trade was fine. As stated many times it wasn't just about would you prefer 'x' or 'y'. It was the bigger picture that needed to be judged.

It's more a case of the following drafts and trade period haven't been successful in "complementing" recruiting such a player.

As good as he is it's only one player. Look at Geelong 2011, and Gold Coast today. Extreme cases, but still examples.

The find a player to protect 1 man was missing the point. Geelong's midfield doesn't revolve around Selwood, nor Collingwood's over Swan, or West Coast over Priddis. Just as we knew that a multi-functional forward line was going to be a better option than just Fevola and dust.

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"They're [REDACTED]'