What a dreadful game...didn't come away from it feeling any better than before. Amazingly, we were held to one goal in the 3rd by the team that is 0-9.

We had 7 first choice players out so I suppose we can be cut a bit of slack on that note.

I thought Collins started to come into it, shame about his injury.

Good comeback game from Warnock, easily our best tap ruckman. Mclean was good but still passes to teammates under pressure at times, still a good effort from him overall. Bootsma looks promising. Knows what he's doing & is a lovely kick.

The Port game will be close I think.

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#DonTheStash

I thought it odd that we trotted McLean out for the presser after his first decent game for the club.

Just sayin.

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"I had to eat"

I actually thought that the three talls wasn't as bad as what everyone else seems to think. 206 was good in the ruck, Hammer's marking was great and Kreuze did ok. Things like the stuff up when Hammer and I think Jeffie/Eddie ran onto a ball coming in fast which should have been a certain goal but we got beaten is just a lack of experience playing together in those roles.

Given that it was 206's first game, he did well, did a bit more than just tap the ball down, so we'll put him to one side as a given. (although there's got to be someone that tells these guys occasionally don't jump prematurely into your opponent and mistime the ball, just let him jump first, fall out of the way, then you jump later and ram the ball down a navy blue jumper).

Hammer was good, but as I said earlier I'd like it more if he stayed closer to the square, or at least if there was anyone near the square it should be him first up rather than Eddie/Jeffie.

Kreuze is the worry for me, he is struggling in the marking dept, perhaps mistiming his run, getting too far under the ball or being pushed out. FFS, he's no jockey and should be able to stand his ground. His tap work can be average at times, just dropping the ball at his feet or where opposition seem to be first there. Does he need a break? Probably IMO. Young big guys need time, but he's struggling a bit this year compared to where I thought he'd be. Love his work ethic though.

So, I would persist with the three talls a bit longer, sort out who is the forward target, give 206 say 50% of the ruckwork and rotate Kreuze and Hammer in as necessary, with one or both (if both on) in the forward line at other times. Others have a job to do in keeping up the forward defensive pressure to avoid getting hurt on the turnover.

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also on twitter @m_j_short

I read The Age report on the game this morning. I was quite pleased with Ellard's game and was surprised he didn't rate a mention amongst our best (seven listed).

I was even more surprised to see Gibbs mentioned as our second best, behind only Robbo and scored seven votes in The Age Footballer of the Year award. I wouldn't have put Bryce among our best, let alone given him 7/10 behind only Robbo's 8/10.

Now, I know you can't make too much of statistics, there's so many variables, but I thought the comparison between Ellard and Gibbs made for interesting reading.

Ellard: 29 possessions; 10 contested: 2 critical errors: 2 scoring assists: 85% game time.
Gibbs: 25 possessions; 1 contested: 3 critical errors: 1 scoring assist: 95% game time.

I felt Bryce played a servicable game, obviously not everyone is a Gibbs critic.

1 contested possession is a problem when, arguably, for over a half of football it was a contested game.

Like I said in the Gibbs thread, he was better than he has been for a few weeks, but there's still so much to do.

Ellard also kept Moloney to under 12 touches as well.

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BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

very good stats for Ellard - sets a standard for him now

every team has to bring out who the coach thinks was the BOG for that game

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Probably begged not to sent back to that cave we keep him in.

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Interesting Ratten said at 3/4 time that one of the problem of too many talls was the ball was coming out of our forward line too easily. Won't be as successful against better sides. Sides will work it out. One reason I prefer Hampson 2nd ruck and resting forward than than a more permanent forward as it the latter isn't a natural role. Might catch the opposition out for a while but they'll soon work it out. David Hale kicked 8 on Scarlett one game but then trying after that to be a full time forward sapped his confidence and he ended up traded. Doing better at Hawthorn rucking and resting forward.

Kreuzer may need to be employed in another role completely. Maybe Ratts gave a clue in his weekly "Coaches Box" email......."Rob's return also allowed us the flexibility with Matthew Kreuzer, not only in terms of where we played him yesterday but where we may play him tomorrow - second ruck, centre half-forward, maybe centre half-back or maybe even ruck-rover. These are options we have at our disposal, which affords us a greater tactical give and allows us to be more proactive in keeping the heat on the opposition coaches box."

The ruck-rover part I don't mind.

Some of McLean's handpasses were too slick for his teammates, fumbled or missed completely.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Some of his handballs were also too strong and needed finess.
That comes with understanding from team mates and Mclean's composure.

Fair enough too, his handballs were pretty fierce.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Why did we tag both Moloney and Jones???

Am i the only one who finds this tactic crazy? Surely against a team like Melbourne, we go out and a play on our terms.

cant say i can understand two criticisms on this forum

3 rucks did not work; and

Gibbs is a pea heart-did not play well etc.

Rucks

Warnock was terrific in his comeback game - first hands. Can only improve.

Hampson marked 7 or 8 within 60 metres of goals and could have easily kicked 4 or 5. If Waite is out, he is a better bet than Thornton as No. 1 fwd.

Kruze has 20 possies, kicked a goal, no clangers and had 4 score assists (that's the possession before ths score). Agree his marking is a little off.


Gibbs

Did not get beaten in a one on one contest all day. Won the conrtest or drew a 50/50 every time. I think if you look at the replay he was in plenty of them too. Never loses his feet, brilliant under pressure. In my votes.

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Go Blues

Agreed re Jones, in theory, no need to.

In practice, went in with a lot of one dimensional role players who would have otherwise had very little to do.

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Agree Sticks - 3 rucks certainly did work on the day but not sure that it will work against the better teams and we wouldnt be a bit top heavy on a fast track as opposed to a holding one like yesterday - maybe Im wrong but the Hammer looked like a forward yesterday and his bucket hands when he clunks them remind me of Loewe from Stkilda (not saying he will be as good )- he needs to work on goal kicking and pressure when he hasnt got the ball -rivers got too much of ball yesterday coming out of defence
Warnock was impressive for a first up performance and apart from clearances was the only ruckman that Jamar didnt outbody or out bustled on the day -that extra 6 cms in height also means he is more difficult to jump over - his performance yesterday reminded me how good he was in the past 2 finals series
Kreuz was good but doesnt seem to be clunking the marks that he took earlier in the season and looks not as quick - it was a shame he didnt get a rest of few weeks ago against GWS

Gibbs was better yesterday and harder at the ball but seems to have lost a bit of confidence

Just goes to show how uninformed most journalists are. Quick look at the stats column. Who's got a lot? Whose name do I recognise? Yep, he deserves votes.

Compare it to coaches votes or best and fairest rating, and I doubt very much Gibbs would be in our 10 best players on the day.

Greg Baum's a top writer.

Anyhoo, let the Gibbs bashing continue.

On the first point though Sticks, the question for me is not whether or not they did anything, but how their replacement would have fared, (given a full list). So if we're thinking about a key forward, who would you choose between Hammer, Krueze, Waite and Henderson? The issue for me is that we do not gain anything having three blokes sharing ruck duties, (versus having two). As KP forwards, IMO Hammer and Krueze aint got it. As rucks resting in the forward line - yes, very handy.