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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:00 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
club29 wrote:
Pies fans use to hate Malthouse going on about wars after losses. They forgot pretty quickly when they hit top gear in 2010.
Can't imagine getting angry that a losing coach kept talking nonsense after a game in a press conference. Happens in just about every sport world wide and is just dribble after an exhausting day/night.


Your continually going off on a tangent Club. For the 3rd time, it was an hour before the match and I'm not angry about his comments.
I'm disappointed as a supporter. His words and actions had the opportunity to show he had a grasp on our current issues. By the end of the game, neither gave me any hope.

What Malthouse or anyone else had to say is totally irrelevant to me.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:07 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I think what club wants you to say is rats I, great!
the players are crap!
keep doing what we are doing till it sinks in and the players win again!

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:20 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
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Location: Nth Fitzroy
Blue Vain wrote:
club29 wrote:
Pies fans use to hate Malthouse going on about wars after losses. They forgot pretty quickly when they hit top gear in 2010.
Can't imagine getting angry that a losing coach kept talking nonsense after a game in a press conference. Happens in just about every sport world wide and is just dribble after an exhausting day/night.


Your continually going off on a tangent Club. For the 3rd time, it was an hour before the match and I'm not angry about his comments.
I'm disappointed as a supporter. His words and actions had the opportunity to show he had a grasp on our current issues. By the end of the game, neither gave me any hope.

What Malthouse or anyone else had to say is totally irrelevant to me.


Yeah it was a bit of tangent.

Fair enough i take your point but i am sure the coaches know where we are failing and still believe if we put in the required effort, develop the right mental attitude and get back in sync with one another we can work our way through this.

Its either that or try a completely different game style. Hard to see any club doing that at this stage of the season. So its all or nothing. Get better at what the plan has been for the last 6 months or sink. Coaches will be first to go down with the ship and they know it so i have no doubt they will do what they think is best for the team. I choose to support them and at years end if we dont improve on last year and they are shown the door noone can argue.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:23 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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camelboy wrote:
DocSherrin wrote:
Any chance you can provide a link or cut & paste...some of us aren't Carlton members.


Or for the people who are members but only seem to get 1 in 10 emails from the club. :razz:


That too...though less I get hounded down by the uneducated on twitter again - there are various types of membership...club membership just happens to be one of a few options...AFL and MCC are others. I'm not buying two seat for one bum. The club still receive more than my membership fee during the year through other things whether that be dinners, merchandise, golf days etc etc...


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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You're very insistent on Judd running the midfield setups - is it a coach or boardmember that has told you this Doc?

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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club29 wrote:
Fair enough i take your point but i am sure the coaches know where we are failing and still believe if we put in the required effort, develop the right mental attitude and get back in sync with one another we can work our way through this.

Its either that or try a completely different game style. Hard to see any club doing that at this stage of the season. So its all or nothing. Get better at what the plan has been for the last 6 months or sink. Coaches will be first to go down with the ship and they know it so i have no doubt they will do what they think is best for the team. I choose to support them and at years end if we dont improve on last year and they are shown the door noone can argue.


But arent the other clubs changing the way they play?
Before Essendon* decided to flood our stoppages, no one was doing it. Now, its seen as the method to stop the Blues. AFL players play on instinct. Its only at stoppages etc that they have the opportunity to make considered decisions about their actions. Thats where we need to change.
Instead of our backs dropping off their opponents intentionally, why cant they go to the stoppage with them? Why cant the wingmen join their opponents at the stoppage instead of dropping off them.
One on one footy. Whats the harm in trying it at stoppages? Surely Duigan can push up and screen for Judd or body up to Dangerfield.
Consistently giving them extras at the stoppages and then bemoaning our ability to win the ball is foolish.

Whats the old saying about only a fool expecting a different outcome when he continues to make the same mistakes?

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:06 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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if true the club is totally down the gurgler

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:37 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Synbad wrote:
if true the club is totally down the gurgler

better start supporting someone else then..............please?

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Garry Crane
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The video from the_wookie with alan richardson after the saints games explains exactly how the coaching grp goes about it.

Tues after the saints game, all the coaches sat together (6 hrs) and brainstormed what was missing and what necessary actions were needed in preparation for the crows.

I dont think the process in analysing is broken.

It is either the coaches not being smart enough to know what to do or implementation by the players is failing.
N
Based on ratts press conferences he makes it clear he thinks it is implementation that is breaking down, with some players not playing the designated role.

Carlton has a game plan that the coaching grp think is best for success, that relies, for one, on a spare man a kick away from the contest on the defensive side. This is not really working. Teams are being allowed time and space at the contest, so they can go around this player. Nulifying the tactic. Adelaide kept control of the ball went through the corridor. So do you change the game plan or do you work on being harder at the contest, and forcing the rushed kicks forward and allowing us to use the spare man effectively. Also teams are deciding to man up on that spare player especially if it is bryce gibbs.

For me the basics of the game never change. Win it out of the guts or pressure the kicks forward and most of the other stuff starts to sort itself out. Fail on this, the rest is secondary.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:50 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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kingkerna wrote:
Synbad wrote:
if true the club is totally down the gurgler

better start supporting someone else then..............please?



Ill do what i want even if you contrinue your grovelling ...Your grovelling makes no difference to me.!!!
Stand up and act like a man and suck it in!!! :screwy:

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:15 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9105
Location: Nth Fitzroy
Blue Vain wrote:
club29 wrote:
Fair enough i take your point but i am sure the coaches know where we are failing and still believe if we put in the required effort, develop the right mental attitude and get back in sync with one another we can work our way through this.

Its either that or try a completely different game style. Hard to see any club doing that at this stage of the season. So its all or nothing. Get better at what the plan has been for the last 6 months or sink. Coaches will be first to go down with the ship and they know it so i have no doubt they will do what they think is best for the team. I choose to support them and at years end if we dont improve on last year and they are shown the door noone can argue.


But arent the other clubs changing the way they play?
Before Essendon* decided to flood our stoppages, no one was doing it. Now, its seen as the method to stop the Blues. AFL players play on instinct. Its only at stoppages etc that they have the opportunity to make considered decisions about their actions. Thats where we need to change.
Instead of our backs dropping off their opponents intentionally, why cant they go to the stoppage with them? Why cant the wingmen join their opponents at the stoppage instead of dropping off them.
One on one footy. Whats the harm in trying it at stoppages? Surely Duigan can push up and screen for Judd or body up to Dangerfield.
Consistently giving them extras at the stoppages and then bemoaning our ability to win the ball is foolish.

Whats the old saying about only a fool expecting a different outcome when he continues to make the same mistakes?


Did you watch the set ups against Essendon* and the Saints as closely as you did last weeks crows game? Perhaps the sag off was an attempt to stop us being killed by open forward lines. I am not saying it was but perhaps the strategy guy thought this could minimise the damage of what had been occuring the weeks before. Also you said the Crows did the same thing when our hf pushed up.
Wingers had to get involved in the arm wrestle as far as i am concerned. If the coaches thought we could leave blokes out so we could make them pay for compressing around stoppages they were left red faced because as we all know it only came out on their terms and we were left with players standing around with clean hands.

I see it like you do BV. We need to get in there and engage in the battle. If we win it and can't run it forward like we use to then so be it.
Creep forward for all i care as long as we contest in close and dont let them out with it. Form will come with some big tackles. Might even find other teams dont like two sided congestion. Go all Ross Lyon on our opposition for a while win by two goals providing the opposition dont get over 7. Brocks skillset might even come into play.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:59 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:51 pm
Posts: 18
Pafloyul wrote:
GWS wrote:
I'm really not understanding the references to Ratten being "reactive".

If he was able to react to what's in front of him he wouldn't be in this situation.

Surely his problem is that he's "unreactive"?


Reactive does not mean what you think it means. It's a bit like when you see a bent stick and the first thing you do is hastily straiten it only to have it inevitably break at the bend. That's how I see the Carlton FC at the moment.


Pafloyul is right. To explain it more, reactions are knee-jerk responses — often emotionally based but always determined by our conditioning, we feel a certain way about a situation based on our past and that colours our perception of the present (often making us more subjective and less objective).

A more mature way is to respond to the given situation/crisis/problem. This involves the grey matter seeing through the lies of our conditioning (eg. father beat mother when I was child so I feel all authority figures are intrinsically ar--holes and untrustworthy) using rational thought and thereby avoiding counter-productive reactions (aggressively contest every authority figure I meet). A mature coach will have prepared responses to certain eventualities in a game rather than reacting to the obvious end result as BV explained. If Buddy is kicking a shit load of goals do you put 3 players on him? No, it's an understandable reaction but then Hawks just kick to 2nd tall in space. Buddy runs off his opponents and gets a take away goal instead.

It's sometimes said acting is reacting. Feels to me Ratts is acting at coach not actually doing the business but I hope I'm wrong in saying that, I've never been in his shoes or the players. Post game interviews with players feel like they're wondering what the flower is going on too, given Robbo and some else after Saints loss saying we need to turn this around fast — like in the next couple of weeks — so it's not more player conditioning they're talking about or development of skills or speed, it's structures as they like to call them in the AFL. The non-physical aspect of the game which counts for so much. If the game plan is wrong it means very fast players look slow, guns look out of form and smart readers of the play seem reactive and thick. That's why there's a box of very highly paid coaches who don't seem to be cottoning on to the fact that other teams have known to flood and harass our best ball users for the last few years. We only beat Collingwood cause they thought they could win on there own terms and not negate us as the first priority of their game plan.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 8:17 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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What happened to our tackling? I thought we were being trained by the guru in tackling and grappling? Seeing Dangerfield tear through 3 tackles in a scrum and get a handball away was pretty disheartening.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 8:39 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Stone Free wrote:
What happened to our tackling? I thought we were being trained by the guru in tackling and grappling? Seeing Dangerfield tear through 3 tackles in a scrum and get a handball away was pretty disheartening.


Exactly.

I thought this was going to be a strength.

Maybe it is for some, but why is it that opponents can lay tackles and we can't break them?

IMO, it seems the opposition is laying tackles for keeps and we are offering token gestures for tackles.
Get fair dinkum Blue boys!

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