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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:16 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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Sydney Blue wrote:
It will be funny if fat arse gets a game


Sorry but geez go easy on him, sad to see the bloke getting ridiculed by his own supporters when he hasnt even played a game yet.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:17 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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He lost me years ago. I can not stand his coaching.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:19 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Tongue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
It will be funny if fat arse gets a game


Sorry but geez go easy on him, sad to see the bloke getting ridiculed by his own supporters when he hasnt even played a game yet.

he wont get a game.

on what basis will he get a game??

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:21 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I'm really not understanding the references to Ratten being "reactive".

If he was able to react to what's in front of him he wouldn't be in this situation.

Surely his problem is that he's "unreactive"?

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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nah he reacts....

just he reacts all wrong...

so he thinks a half a dozen dud stkilda players are dangerous... he reacts and tags a few.

he does it every week.

everyones a tagger...

thats reactive
actually if he was unreactive wed be better off

ratts looks through the possition list and finds dangermen all over the place .. and he tags the @#$%&! out of them.. then wonders why we dont gain possesion of the ball.

i reckon the players are sick of his stupidity...!!!

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:59 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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deano35 wrote:
Synbad wrote:
If he gets a game.. it can only mean Ratts reads this site and he hates my guts and wanted to show me up when i said
Bell has a 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance of playing .
If he plays i hope he has some tricks... cos if he doesnt and he isnt any good.. being called shit n fat wont be much fun .


I wouldn't put it past him.
He was bagged all week by Walls and co for being on the bench and all of them said it's time he went back into the box so he could see the game. Where was he on sunday arvo ??......Up in the box !!!!!

They also mentioned that BRYCE should go back into the guts and play run with roles and not on the HBF. Where did Bryce line up for the first time this year????....... Yep you guessed it in the middle.

Let's see how many BIG changes he makes to the side this week.

At the moment he is a canoli.........full of CREAM...


Sunday wasn't the first time This season Ratts coached from the box, he flagged before the season he'd switch between, and it wasn't the first time Gibbs played in the midfield.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Blue Tongue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
It will be funny if fat arse gets a game


Sorry but geez go easy on him, sad to see the bloke getting ridiculed by his own supporters when he hasnt even played a game yet.


Dangerfield isn't exactly lithe either; 189cm 92kg vs Bell's 187cm 95kg. Hopefully Bell has trimmed back a bit since recruitment, maybe back to 90kg, other than that don't see the problem in giving him a go. KHunt from GC is listed at 186cm and 92kg and he's become a battering ram, something I think we need.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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shape! not weight!

plus I would back wells at the cats recruiting over our boys any day of the week and twice on Sundays!

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:01 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Posts: 18022
Dear Coaches,

Thanks for your email.
I agree, we need changes to the team confronting Melbourne on Sunday but I'd like to see different changes to the ones touted by the coach.
Ratten says "bottom line, if you can't win your own footy and lose too many critical contests, you can't play in our team"
I say, give the players an opportunity to compete on an equal footing and then make your assessments.

Ratten says he'll bring in replacements, even if he's "not altogether sure the replacements are necessarily ready" . I'd suggest he could have Jonothan Brown and Dane Swan in his inclusions and it wouldn't make a difference.
Its not about the personnel, its about the structure they're playing within.

For the past month, our opposition have implemented a style of play that has smothered our engine. Essendon* and St Kilda flooded their forwards around the ball and smashed us when ever we won the ball. They then kicked/ran the ball into space and used the smalls pacer players to run onto the loose ball.
Adelaide were always going to play the game on their terms. They pushed their wingers and a half forward around the ball and used quick hands/hard running to control the play.
No one controls the ball in tight space better than Adelaide.

Yet our coaching panel have come up jack shit to counter it.
Instead I hear plenty of stats and data. Its as if I'm supposed to take some kind of comfort from a coach who can recite stats.
On Sunday, Ratten told 3AW that our long kicks had dropped to 17th in the AFL. Therefore, we were going to kick longer on the day. :?
Heres a bit of information Brett, statistical data doesn't supply answers. It tells you the outcome of a situation. It doesn't tell you the cause. That's what coaches are for.
We're kicking short because the players are under immense pressure and they're kicking to contests where we're undermanned. Instead, they're trying to manufacture space with short kicks and handballs. Fix the problem! Telling them to kick long is amateur bullshit which you should be ashamed of.

Examples of our current issues.
Adelaide played their wingers and a half forward at the stoppages on Sunday. Scotland (our defensive winger) pushed defensive side to assist the defence.
Carlton in return, pushed a half forward up the ground, Adelaide left their defender back which left them plus 1.
At every stoppage, Adelaide had at least one extra player. (Often 2) In the first quarter it was Porplyzia. He had a picnic. 8 possessions, clearances, no opponent.
In the second quarter, Mckay was unmanned in the stoppages. 7 possessions, clearances, goals, no opponent. Easy.
Interestingly, Judd and Curnow had 14 clearances between them. Thompson and Dangerfield had 18.
The damage was done by the loose players, Sloane 4, McKay 5, Porplysia 4, Vince 3.
And if we did win the ball, we were bombing it to an undermanned contest anyway!

Yet Ratten drops a couple of our players in the shit and names them as under performers. Gibbs (who can't win a contest at the moment to save himself) and Curnow. Ratts quotes stats Thompson/Dangerfield v Curnow/Gibbs. 33 possessions to 11.
Once again looking at outcomes instead of reasons.
If he bothered to do his homework, he'd notice Curnow had kept Thompson to 9 possessions half way through the second quarter. Vince and Porplyizia then proceeded to block Curnow at the stoppages to let Thompson off the leash.
In fact, at 1 stoppage, the both went to him and Curnow got past Porplyzia, only for Vince to block him. Meanwhile, Thompson is off and running with the clearance. Curnow isn't a star but I'll tell you what, he busted his arse in the contests on Sunday. Yet he cops the shame?
Tell me, how do we expect our midfielders to beat their opponents when they are consistently 4 against 5 or 6?
I'm tipping they're asking the same questions.

So Ratts, don't quote me bullshit stats. Interpret the stats and understand why they are playing out that way. The players are trying. They're just bemused at the lack of answers.
It's our structure that is [REDACTED].
Dont blame the players. Take responsibility yourself and do your job. If you can't, step aside and let someone else do it.

Supporter.

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Wed May 23, 2012 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:24 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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blue vain!

nice analysis as usual!

but just as we are searching for a fix from the coaches. they obviously don't have them.
the ultimate fix is also needed from further up the chain.

the fact is our players are now losing the plot and it's being compounded when the coach is not finding the answers but instead points fingers at the players!

that is a sign of a coach that does met have things under control at the club!

the board must step in as if this continues on the players will completely fall away.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Location: North of the border
I have been waiting 3 days now for that BV and you didn't let me down

Did you send it ????

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:33 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
Nah mate.
I'm just venting. It helps me deal with the frustration.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:37 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9105
Location: Nth Fitzroy
Blue Vain wrote:
Dear Coaches,

Thanks for your email.
I agree, we need changes to the team confronting Melbourne on Sunday but I'd like to see different changes to the ones touted by the coach.
Ratten says "bottom line, if you can't win your own footy and lose too many critical contests, you can't play in our team"
I say, give the players an opportunity to compete on an equal footing and then make your assessments.

Ratten says he'll bring in replacements, even if he's "not altogether sure the replacements are necessarily ready" . I'd suggest he could have Jonothan Brown and Dane Swan in his inclusions and it wouldn't make a difference.
Its not about the personnel, its about the structure they're playing within.

For the past month, our opposition have implemented a style of play that has smothered our engine. Essendon* and St Kilda flooded their forwards around the ball and smashed us when ever we won the ball. They then kicked/ran the ball into space and used the smalls pacer players to run onto the loose ball.
Adelaide were always going to play the game on their terms. They pushed their wingers and a half forward around the ball and used quick hands/hard running to control the play.
No one controls the ball in tight space better than Adelaide.

Yet our coaching panel have come up jack shit to counter it.
Instead I hear plenty of stats and data. Its as if I'm supposed to take some kind of comfort from a coach who can recite stats.
On Sunday, Ratten told 3AW that our long kicks had dropped to 17th in the AFL. Therefore, we were going to kick longer on the day. :?
Heres a bit of information Brett, statistical data doesn't supply answers. It tells you the outcome of a situation. It doesn't tell you the cause. That's what coaches are for.
We're kicking short because the players are under immense pressure and they're kicking to contests where we're undermanned. Instead, they're trying to manufacture space with short kicks and handballs. Fix the problem! Telling them to kick long is amateur bullshit which you should be ashamed of.

Examples of our current issues.
Adelaide played their wingers and a half forward at the stoppages on Sunday. Scotland (our defensive winger) pushed defensive side to assist the defence.
Carlton in return, pushed a half forward up the ground, Adelaide left their defender back which left them plus 1.
At every stoppage, Adelaide had at least one extra player. (Often 2) In the first quarter it was Porplyzia. He had a picnic. 8 possessions, clearances, no opponent.
In the second quarter, Mckay was unmanned in the stoppages. 7 possessions, clearances, goals, no opponent. Easy.
Interestingly, Judd and Curnow had 14 clearances between them. Thompson and Dangerfield had 18.
The damage was done by the loose players, Sloane 4, McKay 5, Porplysia 4, Vince 3.
And if we did win the ball, we were bombing it to an undermanned contest anyway!

Yet Ratten drops a couple of our players in the shit and names them as under performers. Gibbs (who can't win a contest at the moment to save himself) and Curnow. Ratts quotes stats Thompson/Dangerfield v Curnow/Gibbs. 33 possessions to 11.
Once again looking at outcomes instead of reasons.
If he bothered to do his homework, he'd notice Curnow had kept Thompson to 9 possessions half way through the second quarter. Vince and Porplyizia then proceeded to block Curnow at the stoppages to let Thompson off the leash.
In fact, at 1 stoppage, the both went to him and Curnow got past Porplyzia, only for Vince to block him. Meanwhile, Thompson is off and running with the clearance. Curnow isn't a star but I'll tell you what, he busted his arse in the contests on Sunday. Yet he cops the shame?
Tell me, how do we expect our midfielders to beat their opponents when they are consistently 4 against 5 or 6?
I'm tipping they're asking the same questions.

So Ratts, don't quote me bullshit stats. Interpret the stats and understand why they are playing out that way. The players are trying. They're just bemused at the lack of answers.
It's our structure that is !@#$%&.
Dont blame the players. Take responsibility yourself and do your job. If you can't, step aside and let someone else do it.

Supporter.


Good summary of the game. I enjoyed the read.

One mistake i feel you have made is going after Ratts on what he said to the media. He like all coaches are just killing time when they get interviewed. Throw out some basic stats, change the subject , go on the attack and talk about the game of AFL and other teams are all tactics used by all coaches in press conferences. Even more so during a tough patch or even more so those little 30sec interviews coaches give while walking away from the huddle at 3qrt time.

I wouldn't read too much into any of it. Letting a coaches press conference control your emotions is dumb supporting.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:41 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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we were beaten in clear cut one on one contests on the ground and in the air time after time - that's a player fault, either lack of ability or lack of effort


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Rexy wrote:
we were beaten in clear cut one on one contests on the ground and in the air time after time - that's a player fault, either lack of ability or lack of effort



Contested marking has never been one of our strong suits.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:14 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9105
Location: Nth Fitzroy
Rexy wrote:
we were beaten in clear cut one on one contests on the ground and in the air time after time - that's a player fault, either lack of ability or lack of effort


There were some terrible ones too Rexy. Contests we are use to seeing us win or at least half.

Lots of out of form players in the team and I won't hear any of this nonsense that poor coaching is the reason they are out of form.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
club29 wrote:
Rexy wrote:
we were beaten in clear cut one on one contests on the ground and in the air time after time - that's a player fault, either lack of ability or lack of effort


There were some terrible ones too Rexy. Contests we are use to seeing us win or at least half.

Lots of out of form players in the team and I won't hear any of this nonsense that poor coaching is the reason they are out of form.


You won't hear it? :lol:

Give us some examples of these "terrible" one on one contests we would normally win.

Whats the change club?
Why have we fallen away after a solid start?
Is the coaching contributing to our losses or is it purely the players fault?

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Blue Vain wrote:
Dear Coaches,

Thanks for your email.
I agree, we need changes to the team confronting Melbourne on Sunday but I'd like to see different changes to the ones touted by the coach.
Ratten says "bottom line, if you can't win your own footy and lose too many critical contests, you can't play in our team"
I say, give the players an opportunity to compete on an equal footing and then make your assessments.

Ratten says he'll bring in replacements, even if he's "not altogether sure the replacements are necessarily ready" . I'd suggest he could have Jonothan Brown and Dane Swan in his inclusions and it wouldn't make a difference.
Its not about the personnel, its about the structure they're playing within.

For the past month, our opposition have implemented a style of play that has smothered our engine. Essendon* and St Kilda flooded their forwards around the ball and smashed us when ever we won the ball. They then kicked/ran the ball into space and used the smalls pacer players to run onto the loose ball.
Adelaide were always going to play the game on their terms. They pushed their wingers and a half forward around the ball and used quick hands/hard running to control the play.
No one controls the ball in tight space better than Adelaide.

Yet our coaching panel have come up jack shit to counter it.
Instead I hear plenty of stats and data. Its as if I'm supposed to take some kind of comfort from a coach who can recite stats.
On Sunday, Ratten told 3AW that our long kicks had dropped to 17th in the AFL. Therefore, we were going to kick longer on the day. :?
Heres a bit of information Brett, statistical data doesn't supply answers. It tells you the outcome of a situation. It doesn't tell you the cause. That's what coaches are for.
We're kicking short because the players are under immense pressure and they're kicking to contests where we're undermanned. Instead, they're trying to manufacture space with short kicks and handballs. Fix the problem! Telling them to kick long is amateur bullshit which you should be ashamed of.

Examples of our current issues.
Adelaide played their wingers and a half forward at the stoppages on Sunday. Scotland (our defensive winger) pushed defensive side to assist the defence.
Carlton in return, pushed a half forward up the ground, Adelaide left their defender back which left them plus 1.
At every stoppage, Adelaide had at least one extra player. (Often 2) In the first quarter it was Porplyzia. He had a picnic. 8 possessions, clearances, no opponent.
In the second quarter, Mckay was unmanned in the stoppages. 7 possessions, clearances, goals, no opponent. Easy.
Interestingly, Judd and Curnow had 14 clearances between them. Thompson and Dangerfield had 18.
The damage was done by the loose players, Sloane 4, McKay 5, Porplysia 4, Vince 3.
And if we did win the ball, we were bombing it to an undermanned contest anyway!

Yet Ratten drops a couple of our players in the shit and names them as under performers. Gibbs (who can't win a contest at the moment to save himself) and Curnow. Ratts quotes stats Thompson/Dangerfield v Curnow/Gibbs. 33 possessions to 11.
Once again looking at outcomes instead of reasons.
If he bothered to do his homework, he'd notice Curnow had kept Thompson to 9 possessions half way through the second quarter. Vince and Porplyizia then proceeded to block Curnow at the stoppages to let Thompson off the leash.
In fact, at 1 stoppage, the both went to him and Curnow got past Porplyzia, only for Vince to block him. Meanwhile, Thompson is off and running with the clearance. Curnow isn't a star but I'll tell you what, he busted his arse in the contests on Sunday. Yet he cops the shame?
Tell me, how do we expect our midfielders to beat their opponents when they are consistently 4 against 5 or 6?
I'm tipping they're asking the same questions.

So Ratts, don't quote me bullshit stats. Interpret the stats and understand why they are playing out that way. The players are trying. They're just bemused at the lack of answers.
It's our structure that is !@#$%&.
Dont blame the players. Take responsibility yourself and do your job. If you can't, step aside and let someone else do it.

Supporter.


:clap: POW!! :clap: :thumbsup:

I have been lurking all week without posting (i.e. venting) waiting to read a post that summarises how I have seen things unfold over the past 5 weeks, and this is it!!

The thing I have been thinking about most over the past few days is the reason why our players look flat and disinterested, but then all of a sudden are able to produce small bursts during the game (like the 3rd quarter on Sunday) where we appear to be dominating. There is no doubt we have some degree of mental fragility in our playing group, but then again so do many other teams (Refer Hawthorn vs Geelong since 2008, Interstate sides playing in Melbourne, Bogey teams etc.) and I don't believe that is what it comes down to.

Like many of you who have played competitive sport and/or have had a job during their lifetime would know, if the Coach/Boss/Project Manager/Leader does not have a plan that everyone believes in, a majority of the time things will just turn to shit. Sure, you may have moments where you have bursts of enthusiasm where either things just click for one reason or another, or maybe you band together with a couple of teamates/workmates/colleagues and decide to go against the plan because you know it will work better, but in the end the Coach/Boss/Project Manager/Leader has the final say - and that's where I reckon our team is at the moment.

They know that the plan isn’t working and probably have little faith in the game plan, which is understandable given our past 5 weeks. How demoralising would it be sitting through all the pre-game planning sessions and the one-on-ones with the coaching staff only to have the plan blow up in your face week after week, with little change other than who gets to tag *insert opposition overrated hack player name here* this week? No wonder our players seem flat and mentally weak!!

And as far as being soft – yeah, sure we have a few that are like warmed-up butter – but seriously have you ever noticed how your own commitment levels change due to the style of leadership being provided? I know this fluctuates for me everyday!!

Yes, of course it can’t be all about the coach and the players need to start taking some of the responsibility, but seriously Ratts and the coaching staff need to show an ability to modify our game plan to combat the recent tactics ASAP or there must be a major clean-out at the end of the season.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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On Ratts, I haven't seen anything to suggest he has an above average innovative tactical mind - maybe I'm wrong on that, but that's just my view.

The players - too many with fragile temperaments who lack composure/confidence when heat is applied.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
Rexy wrote:
On Ratts, I haven't seen anything to suggest he has an above average innovative tactical mind - maybe I'm wrong on that, but that's just my view.

The players - too many with fragile temperaments who lack composure/confidence when heat is applied.


Do you need an "above average innovative tactical mind" to counter opposition tactics after 4 games.
I would have though a moderate degree of competency would do. :?

Whats your thoughts on our stoppages Rexy? Are we losing them because we're being outnumbered?

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