The Blueprint for beating Carlton

Rexy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am **Posts:** 28227

We need to have variation in our patterns of play that makes us unpredictable - if we have that ability we can dictate the games and control it on our terms.

I have question marks on our coaching groups ability to develop unpredictability.

camel · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 2:26 pm

Adam Chatfield wrote:

We are more than capable of a good scrap when we feel we are playing an opposition we are not expected to stroll to victory against.

Complacency/maturity/consistency of effort is our biggest problem at the moment. I don't think we need a reinvention of the game plan, more tweaking to combat some new things being thrown at us.

I think the whole beat up about us after the Collingwood game didn't help us one bit, but that is our problem, shouldn't start playing like millionaires because of it.

I actually think the fact everyone has seemed to not rate Essendon* as highly has helped them stay focused and grounded. Be interesting to see how they go this week as they are now being talked up as a legitimate top side.

People say media/public expectation makes no difference, but you have a bunch of young guys who hear everything, its definitely going to have an impact. We just have to become more mature to ignore it and stick to the fundamentals.

Well said. :beer:

redback · **Joined:** Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm **Posts:** 2646

Adam Chatfield wrote:

We are more than capable of a good scrap when we feel we are playing an opposition we are not expected to stroll to victory against.

Complacency/maturity/consistency of effort is our biggest problem at the moment. I don't think we need a reinvention of the game plan, more tweaking to combat some new things being thrown at us.

I think the whole beat up about us after the Collingwood game didn't help us one bit, but that is our problem, shouldn't start playing like millionaires because of it.

I actually think the fact everyone has seemed to not rate Essendon* as highly has helped them stay focused and grounded. Be interesting to see how they go this week as they are now being talked up as a legitimate top side.

People say media/public expectation makes no difference, but you have a bunch of young guys who hear everything, its definitely going to have an impact. We just have to become more mature to ignore it and stick to the fundamentals.

Fair but how long before we stop using the young guys excuse.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 9:17 pm

camelboy wrote:

Adam Chatfield wrote:

We are more than capable of a good scrap when we feel we are playing an opposition we are not expected to stroll to victory against.

Complacency/maturity/consistency of effort is our biggest problem at the moment. I don't think we need a reinvention of the game plan, more tweaking to combat some new things being thrown at us.

I think the whole beat up about us after the Collingwood game didn't help us one bit, but that is our problem, shouldn't start playing like millionaires because of it.

I actually think the fact everyone has seemed to not rate Essendon* as highly has helped them stay focused and grounded. Be interesting to see how they go this week as they are now being talked up as a legitimate top side.

People say media/public expectation makes no difference, but you have a bunch of young guys who hear everything, its definitely going to have an impact. We just have to become more mature to ignore it and stick to the fundamentals.

Well said. :beer:

Yeah, I'm with you too :thumbsup:

MPH78 · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 10:47 pm

bondiblue wrote:

camelboy wrote:

Adam Chatfield wrote:

We are more than capable of a good scrap when we feel we are playing an opposition we are not expected to stroll to victory against.

Complacency/maturity/consistency of effort is our biggest problem at the moment. I don't think we need a reinvention of the game plan, more tweaking to combat some new things being thrown at us.

I think the whole beat up about us after the Collingwood game didn't help us one bit, but that is our problem, shouldn't start playing like millionaires because of it.

I actually think the fact everyone has seemed to not rate Essendon* as highly has helped them stay focused and grounded. Be interesting to see how they go this week as they are now being talked up as a legitimate top side.

People say media/public expectation makes no difference, but you have a bunch of young guys who hear everything, its definitely going to have an impact. We just have to become more mature to ignore it and stick to the fundamentals.

Well said. :beer:

Yeah, I'm with you too :thumbsup:

I would like to agree also. But how many chances do we need need to disprove this? It is hardly a new issue.

My other concern is the players mentality. In all honesty, what right have they got to be complacent? What have this group really achieved?

They have the talent and the opportunity to achieve some big things. Even this season. But I have concerns about their mental maturity and determination to truly become elite.

I said earlier this week that I hope internally they realize they currently are not as good as they think they are. Change this mindset and be prepared to do the hard yards and get their hands dirty.

Sunday will tell us a lot about our player group and chances this year IMHO.

BigGartos · **Joined:** Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:25 pm **Posts:** 925

"My other concern is the players mentality. In all honesty, what right have they got to be complacent? What have this group really achieved?"

Right on MPH.
Pre season it was "We're never going to get ourselves in a sitaution like the final in Perth again": then Rnd 4 didn't turn up. After that game they said all the right things, played a really gutsy game against Freo (including adjusting the game style) then haven't turned up the next two weeks.

SurreyBlue · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am **Posts:** 10576

MPH78 wrote:

Sunday will tell us a lot about our player group and chances this year IMHO.

No it won't. The next 6-8 weeks will tells us more. :thumbsup:

moshe25 · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am **Posts:** 11671

Synbad wrote:

I love doing what I do here!

I am soothed!
I do drink some wine but rarely beer I have cigarettes but don't pot. I drink coffee but outside of that I never take any kind of pill or medicine.
no pain killers no anti biotic of any kind and I try to keep check of my sugar intake! ......

So, no sticky date puddings then? :wink:

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2012 6:01 am

MPH78 wrote:

My other concern is the players mentality. In all honesty, what right have they got to be complacent? What have this group really achieved?

Don't they understand they still owe our Perth fans?

You say this like its a given they've become complacent.

Football fans are a lazy bunch. If they don't understand something they quickly turn to anger and quick and easy targets or explanations for a poor performance, without doing any analysis of the reasons behind it. Generally its either the players attitude or the coaches game plan. Maybe you're right, maybe not. It's highly unlikely though that our performance on Monday night can be put down entirely to players mentality and them being complacent.

Synbad · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2012 7:22 am

moshe25 wrote:

Synbad wrote:

I love doing what I do here!

I am soothed!
I do drink some wine but rarely beer I have cigarettes but don't pot. I drink coffee but outside of that I never take any kind of pill or medicine.
no pain killers no anti biotic of any kind and I try to keep check of my sugar intake! ......

So, no sticky date puddings then? :wink:

Me bad!!!

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18024

If we're going to lose games because we've lost some average players, we're in more trouble than I thought.
A robust game plan relies on a quality structure that stands up under pressure. It's not dependent on having stars carrying the can for the rest but players having the ability to play a role competently.
Yes Carrots has gone down but FFS, is our ability to win hingeing on the availability of Andrew Carrazzo? :screwy:

Spare me.

Over recent years we developed a style of game that suits our strengths. Surely at some stage we expected the opposition to counter it? Does anyone think we were going to merrily march to the premiership and play it all on our terms?
Our resilience and ability to adapt is being tested now and I'm enjoying the spectacle of watching us try to adapt. For once the coaches are being really tested. It all great to expect our champions to carry us but when you become a contender, you need more than that. Everyone has to play a part and do it competently.
Lets see if the coaches box can carry their share of the load.

IMo, we've been in a holding pattern for about a month. Essendon* exposed us badly and since then, we've tried to adapt and find realistic solutions. The Freo and Saints games are almost mirror images. It just came down to who was more accurate in front of goal in the end.
In Freo it was us, Monday it was them. The stats and style are similar. We're struggling to counter the midfield flood and as a result, we're haemorraging in defence. It tells me the recent tactics have seen us forced to perform like a 6-10 team instead of a top 4 side purely based on our oppositions tactics.

IMHO, It isn't so much about workrate or dogfights. It's about players having full confidence in a game style and excecuting it. At the moment, our players are bemused. They have been playing the game on their own terms and suddenly that isnt reaping rewards.
They cant break on an offensive transition because we're not winning the clearances. They cant run and carry so our forward entries are too shallow. Instead of getting a contest inside 30, its getting chopped off at 50. They're looking for answers.
Strong teams have a belief in the gamestyle that is unwavering. We're being tested in that department.

The bonus is, we'll find out a lot about ourselves in the next couple of months. Can we adapt and re-establish a robust and sustainable game style or will we flounder. I'm looking forward to seeing how we react.
As someone else said. its better we find out now.

Synbad · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2012 9:15 am

Out Joseph Bower Russel
In Thornton Lucas Curnow.

:lol:

doofdoof · **Joined:** Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm **Posts:** 2251

good post bv.

my worry is that if we head south we wont react quickly enough to resolve things and finding out now will mean nothing.

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2012 9:25 am

Blue Vain wrote:

If we're going to lose games because we've lost some average players, we're in more trouble than I thought.
A robust game plan relies on a quality structure that stands up under pressure. It's not dependent on having stars carrying the can for the rest but players having the ability to play a role competently.
Yes Carrots has gone down but FFS, is our ability to win hingeing on the availability of Andrew Carrazzo? :screwy:

Spare me.

Over recent years we developed a style of game that suits our strengths. Surely at some stage we expected the opposition to counter it? Does anyone think we were going to merrily march to the premiership and play it all on our terms?
Our resilience and ability to adapt is being tested now and I'm enjoying the spectacle of watching us try to adapt. For once the coaches are being really tested. It all great to expect our champions to carry us but when you become a contender, you need more than that. Everyone has to play a part and do it competently.
Lets see if the coaches box can carry their share of the load.

IMo, we've been in a holding pattern for about a month. Essendon* exposed us badly and since then, we've tried to adapt and find realistic solutions. The Freo and Saints games are almost mirror images. It just came down to who was more accurate in front of goal in the end.
In Freo it was us, Monday it was them. The stats and style are similar. We're struggling to counter the midfield flood and as a result, we're haemorraging in defence. It tells me the recent tactics have seen us forced to perform like a 6-10 team instead of a top 4 side purely based on our oppositions tactics.

IMHO, It isn't so much about workrate or dogfights. It's about players having full confidence in a game style and excecuting it. At the moment, our players are bemused. They have been playing the game on their own terms and suddenly that isnt reaping rewards.
They cant break on an offensive transition because we're not winning the clearances. They cant run and carry so our forward entries are too shallow. Instead of getting a contest inside 30, its getting chopped off at 50. They're looking for answers.
Strong teams have a belief in the gamestyle that is unwavering. We're being tested in that department.

The bonus is, we'll find out a lot about ourselves in the next couple of months. Can we adapt and re-establish a robust and sustainable game style or will we flounder. I'm looking forward to seeing how we react.
As someone else said. its better we find out now.

Great post BV!

Thanks again for posting a logical, informed analysis on whats happened over the last month.

Rexy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am **Posts:** 28227

Blue Vain wrote:

If we're going to lose games because we've lost some average players, we're in more trouble than I thought.
A robust game plan relies on a quality structure that stands up under pressure. It's not dependent on having stars carrying the can for the rest but players having the ability to play a role competently.
Yes Carrots has gone down but FFS, is our ability to win hingeing on the availability of Andrew Carrazzo? :screwy:

Spare me.

Over recent years we developed a style of game that suits our strengths. Surely at some stage we expected the opposition to counter it? Does anyone think we were going to merrily march to the premiership and play it all on our terms?
Our resilience and ability to adapt is being tested now and I'm enjoying the spectacle of watching us try to adapt. For once the coaches are being really tested. It all great to expect our champions to carry us but when you become a contender, you need more than that. Everyone has to play a part and do it competently.
Lets see if the coaches box can carry their share of the load.

IMo, we've been in a holding pattern for about a month. Essendon* exposed us badly and since then, we've tried to adapt and find realistic solutions. The Freo and Saints games are almost mirror images. It just came down to who was more accurate in front of goal in the end.
In Freo it was us, Monday it was them. The stats and style are similar. We're struggling to counter the midfield flood and as a result, we're haemorraging in defence. It tells me the recent tactics have seen us forced to perform like a 6-10 team instead of a top 4 side purely based on our oppositions tactics.

IMHO, It isn't so much about workrate or dogfights. It's about players having full confidence in a game style and excecuting it. At the moment, our players are bemused. They have been playing the game on their own terms and suddenly that isnt reaping rewards.
They cant break on an offensive transition because we're not winning the clearances. They cant run and carry so our forward entries are too shallow. Instead of getting a contest inside 30, its getting chopped off at 50. They're looking for answers.
Strong teams have a belief in the gamestyle that is unwavering. We're being tested in that department.

The bonus is, we'll find out a lot about ourselves in the next couple of months. Can we adapt and re-establish a robust and sustainable game style or will we flounder. I'm looking forward to seeing how we react.
As someone else said. its better we find out now.

yeah this is a pretty common theme with supporters - are we capable of formulating and implementing variations of play ?

we must be able to adapt our patterns to dictate play on our terms

Juanita Jones · **Joined:** Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:30 pm **Posts:** 4180

Great post BV as usual. You read the game exceptionally well which is why I love reading your posts.

dannyboy · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2012 10:16 am

I reckon it was a shit post BV

Synbad · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2012 10:17 am

dannyboy wrote:

I reckon it was a shit post BV

+1

Siegfried · **Joined:** Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:30 pm **Posts:** 2864

Three things I invite my fellow Talking Carltonians to look for in tomorrow's game.

1. Clearance work obviously, this has been well documented.

2. How often we bomb it into forward 50 when the numbers are against us, OR when there is space in the forward line (quick transition) but we choose to bomb to a contest (even if the numbers are even) rather than try and hit someone up on a lead (which of course requires someone to lead, but I don't think that's our game plan, so they don't lead).

3. Will Adelaide do what Ess, Freo, GWS and St K did, and station 3 or 4 of their players on the fat side when we have the ball in our back line, preventing us from switching play and opening up the game. This forces us to kick down the line to congestion. We as yet have not been able to work out a Plan B to our preferred way of opening up the game, which other teams have now worked out and shut down.

chubbyruss · **Joined:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:59 am **Posts:** 8631

Siegfried wrote:

Three things I invite my fellow Talking Carltonians to look for in tomorrow's game.

1. Clearance work obviously, this has been well documented.

2. How often we bomb it into forward 50 when the numbers are against us, OR when there is space in the forward line (quick transition) but we choose to bomb to a contest (even if the numbers are even) rather than try and hit someone up on a lead (which of course requires someone to lead, but I don't think that's our game plan, so they don't lead).

3. Will Adelaide do what Ess, Freo, GWS and St K did, and station 3 or 4 of their players on the fat side when we have the ball in our back line, preventing us from switching play and opening up the game. This forces us to kick down the line to congestion. We as yet have not been able to work out a Plan B to our preferred way of opening up the game, which other teams have now worked out and shut down.

4. How often will we go to our lead-up tall CHF, Ediie Betts :?:

The Blueprint for beating Carlton

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