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 Post subject: Re: Positional Change
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Melbourne
Figer wrote:
Warby wrote:
Kreuzer CHF....Hammer and 206 Rucks.


Kruz to FF, has to play 30m max from goal with Jeffy & eddy at his feet.

Hammer & 206 Ruck duties only

Waite CHF

Walker has to play more mid field, has pace, size & grunt.


I like that idea, but i think we might have more issues with the midfield then the forward line. If we keep trying to go along the wing and kicking the ball into pockets, then we are always going to struggle to kick goals.


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 Post subject: Re: Positional Change
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:17 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25192
Location: Bondi Beach
I used to love the switch Nichols used to make in the 70's at 3/4 time when we were struggling on a given day (it happened back then too):
Swan CHF and have shots from 60 yards, Walls FF and lead up because you're too tall to spoil from behind and the midfield just attack attack attck...and we'd win every time.

Anyone remember those days?????? How could you not.

Is the backline, the forwardline or the midfield the problem?

Well in 3 games we struggled this year it was in the midfield, and we lost 2 of them.
It's not that the midfield didn't have talent or opportunity, it was that the opposition circled/surrounded the outside players instead of getting sucked into the contest and they stifled our outside run. Simple solution to fix a simple temporary problem.

I say sort out the tactics in the midfield and the rest will look after itself. Our rucks give 'em plenty of opportunity.
The rest is fine imo, but if it aint working in the backline (if too tall) or forward line (too short), as shit does happen, then we have to mix it up. I'm sure Ratts said that was his intention this year, but he really hasn't. Maybe he's saving it for finals. :sly:

I love the idea of Hendo at CHF and Waite at FF with Hammer/ Kreuzer in the FP. I know Hendo is going great guns at CHB, but those who think he aint a CHF are wrong imo and he has proven his value there plenty of times (for a 20yo). I also agree with Roos that Kreuzer can play CHF. I don't know where people get the idea Kreuzer can't play CHF, because I don't recall him playing that spot. I've seen him deep in the full forwardline but not playing a true CHF role. Anyone else remember that?
I like Waite as a lead up FF, and I like him at CHB too, so if and when needed Ratts should mix it up.

Swap Waite and Hendo.

There's some really good ideas above, which just goes to show we do have plenty of options, and I must say I was salivating when I read that Gibbs was doing a lot of goal kicking practise during the preseason...what a luxury him at HF when Yarran comes back in....and allow the Amigos to have a spell in the guts.

I'd also like to see Tuohy thrown into the guts along with Robbo to match the aggression the opposition throws at us...and why not just for midfield bounce don't we throw in a bigger body to maul the ball where we want it to go with the likes of Kreuzer, Duigan, Russell (if he's up to it)...I miss Carrazzo in the guts...got a big body that we need in there..and I think Scotto and Ellard show a bit for the hard ball when in the guts too.

We need to learn a few more midfield tactics and rotate briefly through the midfield other options like Betts, Garlett, Walker to combat the stuff we are learning about the opposition at this early stage of the season.

We'll work it out our new tactics and that's all I think is needed. Saints didn't thrash us, the MC allowed the them to stifle our stars...not all the players fault nor having anything to do with their deficiencies as to why we lost against the Bumbers and Aints.

The most important positional change I'd like to see is Ratts in the coaches box more than he spends at ground level. Let the line coaches have their one on ones with players coming off the field: they're responsible for the players in certain parts of the ground. Ratts needs to watch the whole game and make decisions on what he can see, not what he doesn't see.

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 Post subject: Re: Positional Change
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
Posts: 8163
redback wrote:
Gibbs needs to work in tandem with Walker.


I like this idea as well. The problem is it means taking a short term hit, because we've come to rely on Gibbs down back to stifle our defensive woes. He's probably consistently our 2nd or 3rd best defender (after Jamison and perhaps Henderson).


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 Post subject: Re: Positional Change
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:23 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10576
Walker Waite Garlett
Hampson Thornton or Henderson Betts

We need to support Waite with another geniune forward.
Bower is up and running and so is Jammo - bite the bullet ffs or at the very least leave T-Bird at ff for the rest of the year!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Positional Change
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:15 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Geelong
Goltzenberg wrote:
Carlton never fixed the Forward issue in the preseason. Didn't trade for KPP Forward, never looked at throwing a bone in the draft, so now we have a team that resembles the Western Bulldogs a few years ago. Never made a grand final, but were always in top 4. That is Carlton right now, till we find a full forward. Waite is a CHF, not FF. No team wins a flag with a incomplete spine. FF is our missing piece of the puzzle.

it is a knee jerk reaction to throw Henderson forward. Our backline is the only thing that we have set. When Jamo, laids, hendo, yarran, Duigan, Scotland are all playing, our back line is solid, so don't touch it.

Move gibbs to the midfield / forward role. Stop making him a tagger or lose man in defense. Get on the attack ratts.

Carltons biggest downfall is the midfield. When the midfield is shut down, our forward line falls apart, because they don't get 50 entries into the forward line and if they do the forward line is flooded with not enough key forwards that can take a big mark. Or we are forced to kick to the pockets or sharp angles to take marks.

I think teams have worked out Carlton, do a flood / pagans paddock. When they get the run, they have quick players running into 70m of open space. Essendon*/Saints have both beaten us with that. Both times, our midfield was smashed. It is a bit of a worry


Wasn't that the idea behind getting Sam Rowe?
Who else did you have in mind? Mitch Clark?
Who would you have offered? What's is in excess at Carlton?
Ruckmen? Mid-sized defenders maybe?


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 Post subject: Re: Positional Change
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:02 am 
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Trevor Keogh

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:49 am
Posts: 765
We have 5 key forwards on the senior list so we have options, except three of them are injured, one is inconsistent and the other has to play in defence.


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 Post subject: Re: Positional Change
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:17 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 14686
Location: The Vodka Train
..i do like the idea of Krooz playing CHF, provided it's more in the traditional old school role.. ..he really needs to be consistently in the thick of the action where he's at his best.. ..but for now it won't happen cos Knockers is a month away from seniors easily.. ....and so far 3 in form/fit rucks has not eventuated [if it ever truely will]..

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 Post subject: Re: Positional Change
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:19 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:22 pm
Posts: 4678
Location: Melbourne
Hammertime22 wrote:
no no no ><

walkers best season by far was last year ... as a forward ...


Correct! I totally aggree with this.

Walker was outstanding last year because he FINALLY looked settled. Like he knew he's role in the team. He kicked 58 goals and took one of the greatest marks I have ever seen and if it wasn't for the stupid umpires he would have sent us into the prelim!


In the words of Chris Crocker............ "Leave Walker ALONE!!!!" :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Positional Change
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:32 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 11671
bondiblue wrote:
I used to love the switch Nichols used to make in the 70's at 3/4 time when we were struggling on a given day (it happened back then too):
Swan CHF and have shots from 60 yards, Walls FF and lead up because you're too tall to spoil from behind and the midfield just attack attack attck...and we'd win every time.

Anyone remember those days?????? How could you not.

You mean when we used to beat all the crap sides by 100 points and lose all the big finals? Yeah, I remember those days....

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