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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:14 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 am
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Sugarcane wrote:
MC would be reluctant to drop PB and JR as they both did OK yesterday

IN out

JUDD boostma
WAITE thornton
YARRAN joseph
CURNOW ellard

TBird very unlucky


All very feasible, but do we really need Russell and Duigan in the same team against the Saints?


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:14 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Wojee wrote:
Things I'd like to see the team do this week:

Win the clearances.
Kick more goals than behinds.
Give Judd's tagger a physical workover.
Win the tackle count.
Keep Tiprat goalless.

Oh, and win by >20 points.


POW. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Garry Crane

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our drop off in contested possessions and clearances since Rd3 is ALARMING (getting smashed by some old hacks and young bodies yesterday was embarrasing !).

Question is WHY ????

(Ps. Surely carazzo's absence cannot be the only explanation!)


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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livolover wrote:
our drop off in contested possessions and clearances since Rd3 is ALARMING (getting smashed by some old hacks and young bodies yesterday was embarrasing !).

Question is WHY ????

(Ps. Surely carazzo's absence cannot be the only explanation!)

Training loads

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Donstuie wrote:
livolover wrote:
our drop off in contested possessions and clearances since Rd3 is ALARMING (getting smashed by some old hacks and young bodies yesterday was embarrasing !).

Question is WHY ????

(Ps. Surely carazzo's absence cannot be the only explanation!)

Training loads

apparently


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:40 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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We've been pretty lucky this year with opposition injuries/outs. St Kilda without Fisher and McEvoy should be fairly easy pickings. Although without Carrazzo to do a number on Dal Santo, it'll be interesting to see if we can find someone to do the job.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Maybe the St Kilda schoolgirl?

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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CK95 wrote:
Maybe the St Kilda schoolgirl?




The therapist is still playing isn't he??

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:55 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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AGRO wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Maybe the St Kilda schoolgirl?




The therapist is still playing isn't he??


D'oh - now I get it. :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:12 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:07 pm
Posts: 349
Interested to hear peoples thoughts on Thornton's standing in the team. I for one have done a complete 360 in my opinion on him (as I have with D Armfield).

The fact that he is no longer that no. 1 defender in a team that was getting flogged week in week out has done wonders for his confidence and it shows in his general demeanour on the ground. Body language much much better than it was back in those days.

He is the only true player that we can AFFORD to have do a job at either end when need be. (Waite can play in the backline but why would we do that, and Henderson can play forward but right now the more games he plays settled in defence, the better for his own confidence and long term worth to the team). Ratten talks about the need for players to be versatile and play in multiple for positions. For the most part I think its a rubbish thing to say because each player performs better in one specific position over another, however his comments make sense when injuries occur etc etc. I actually think Thornton is the one exception to this though.

As a forward, Thornton clearly gives us another important marking option down there, which we know we are thin on. Waite, resting ruck when he's not on the bench, and Walker as quasi-tall down there isn't enough and doesn't cause too much discomfort for opposition defences in terms of their own KPDs needing to match up. Thornton is the man to exploit matchups in our forward line and if not for himself then at least maybe he takes away a better defender from Walker.

He can mark over his head quite comfortably and is a decent set shot. Having said all this, his defensive pressure is where he leaves abit to be desired and needs to improve.

As we know, IF need be he can do a job in defence.

People knock him for his short pass 'sideways' game. I actually think he's one of the better kicks in the team for spotting up passes under 30m and to me it just shows he understands what tempo football means. Slowing things down can be just as important as all out attack if its an appropriate time in the game for it. Gibbs understands this too. Not everyone can and/or needs to be a linebreaker.

I don't think it necessarily comes down to a Thornton v Bower debate for a spot in the team. But if it does, would take Thornton every day of the week for the versatility he offers. Bower was great yesterday but his position is easily replaced by a Laidler, Duigan, Tuohy and even Russell :yikes: .

In a team light on with senior players, he at least brings experience to the table (almost notched up the 200 games) if not leadership.

We are not dealing with the pre 2011 Bret Thornton anymore, he is an entirely different proposition now.

Trust me I never ever ever thought I'd be saying this. Ever. But the guy needs to play each week from hereon in.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:39 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Wojee wrote:
Things I'd like to see the team do this week:

Win the clearances.
Kick more goals than behinds.
Give Judd's tagger a physical workover.
Win the tackle count.
Keep Tiprat goalless.

Oh, and win by >20 points.


Play on Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:53 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
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Rexy wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
livolover wrote:
our drop off in contested possessions and clearances since Rd3 is ALARMING (getting smashed by some old hacks and young bodies yesterday was embarrasing !).

Question is WHY ????

(Ps. Surely carazzo's absence cannot be the only explanation!)

Training loads

apparently


Rexy and Don,

If we come out and smash the Saints and Crows with run would you be any closer to being a believer ?

You can't deny the science is there but the proof its at play now at carlton is what's missing. Hopefully a good month ahead will silence the skeptics.......... or a sh1t month will silence me which is a win win for you guys i guess.

I reckon we will take the saints to the cleaners. Smash them with run while they try to beat us by taking contested grabs inside 50. Cant remember too many opposition contested marks in our defensive fifty this year.

We seem to have found a way to limit inside 50's against and win games without killing it at the clearances which is new to us.

I am predicting a fresher tapered off Carlton to run all over these saints and the Crows the week after.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Location: North of the border
All this talk about training loads

Why did Mitch Robinson say after the Freo game that he would have an easy week then Gold Coast ( he meant GWS)

Did someone not send him the memo

We need to win the next 3 to convince me - Show the world we can win 5 in a row

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:14 pm 
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John Nicholls

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Location: Nth Fitzroy
Sydney Blue wrote:
All this talk about training loads

Why did Mitch Robinson say after the Freo game that he would have an easy week then Gold Coast ( he meant GWS)

Did someone not send him the memo

We need to win the next 3 to convince me - Show the world we can win 5 in a row


True he did say that and i noted it in my "training load" file. Personally i reckon he was just saying stuff.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:17 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
Posts: 4919
Stefchook wrote:
We've been pretty lucky this year with opposition injuries/outs. St Kilda without Fisher and McEvoy should be fairly easy pickings. Although without Carrazzo to do a number on Dal Santo, it'll be interesting to see if we can find someone to do the job.


Conversly everyone faces us at full strength with everyone primed and ready to go. :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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club, we may have indeed been on an increased training regime the last week or 2, but then again we may not have
I just asked if what was being definitively stated was indeed fact - I don't deny it happens

since the Collingwood game it's been difficult to get first hands on the ball and also get space to work/run the ball forward - have the opposition gone to school on our clearance patterns ?
also, is it our option to be kicking the ball into 50 from around 70m's out or are we being forced into this by the opposition in order for them to rebound against us through the corridor ?


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:33 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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club29 wrote:
Rexy and Don,

If we come out and smash the Saints and Crows with run would you be any closer to being a believer ?

You can't deny the science is there but the proof its at play now at carlton is what's missing. Hopefully a good month ahead will silence the skeptics.......... or a sh1t month will silence me which is a win win for you guys i guess.

I reckon we will take the saints to the cleaners. Smash them with run while they try to beat us by taking contested grabs inside 50. Cant remember too many opposition contested marks in our defensive fifty this year.

We seem to have found a way to limit inside 50's against and win games without killing it at the clearances which is new to us.

I am predicting a fresher tapered off Carlton to run all over these saints and the Crows the week after.

I'm a believer, and take no joy when we play badly. In fact, I get incredibly annoyed, and tire of excuses about why. The coach and players have come out publicly and said we weren't switched on, we played badly, we took them lightly and got complacent etc. It's cost us one game already, and regardless of our opposition needs to be stamped out of the team. They're not making excuses, so why should we?

It baffles me that anyone who saw us play yesterday could find it in any way acceptable. We played like shit and need to get better, it doesn't hurt to just accept this. It wasn't "part of the plan" to kick 20 behinds, be second to the ball for most of the game or bomb the ball indiscriminantly to contests time and time again.

A good month ahead would be a great thing to see, especially if we see more of what we saw against Collingwood. But the difference between our best and worst is staggering, no amount of rationalising can erase this IMO. We play like shit sometimes, and we need to stop it. Simple as that.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:37 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
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Location: Nth Fitzroy
Rexy wrote:
club, we may have indeed been on an increased training regime the last week or 2, but then again we may not have
I just asked if what was being definitively stated was indeed fact - I don't deny it happens

since the Collingwood game it's been difficult to get first hands on the ball and also get space to work/run the ball forward - have the opposition gone to school on our clearance patterns ?
also, is it our option to be kicking the ball into 50 from around 70m's out or are we being forced into this by the opposition in order for them to rebound against us through the corridor ?


Good points. Of course noone on this site can say for fact about the loads. I am not sold on it myself but as i have said i am really taking note of the peaks and trough of clubs this year and how it relates to there draw. I also take not of how teams I feel are training it up play each week. You see poor 4 quarter efforts. You see teams look rubbish for 3 quarters then run over a team. You see teams start well and then fade. You see teams struggle against poor sides and then come out the next week and run like mad and play very well.
So with all that in mind I am a believer.

Those issues with our forward entries coming from too far out are there. Cant really get it in deep enough to get the press going as Ratts said was the plan. Maybe a result of no run maybe a result of teams working us out or maybe we tweaked our game a little to be not so reliant on smashing teams at the clearances. How often after a big game loss do we come on here and say “ we got done in the clearances and the it was all downhill from there”…or “ we are going to get beaten in clearances every now and again. We need a plan B”.
Perhaps this tweak is effecting our attacks but bolstering our defence. Remember we lost the clearances badly yesterday but only conceded 33 entries.

Anyway, time will tell. I trust the coaches to iron out the creases. They are a smart bunch.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Re Thornton,
yeah, I guess I have confidence and faith in him to do his job consistently.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Thornton is almost the perfect sub - can play either end and would fix any problem that might have arised.

The problem with Jeffy and Eddie is they go missing for large periods of the game.

Jeffy had no possessions in the first quarter followed by Eddie with no possessions in the second quarter...(might not have that in the correct order).

They are both vital to our setup, and how Ratts gets into their heads is the big challenge. They need to both stay in the team but both need a rocket.

Thought Russell improved a lot as yesterday's game went on, but Duigan might need to be dropped - still suffering injury?

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