Obviously just a flippant remark that you toss out there but it has no basis in the real world. The changes in/at the Club, both on and off the field factually show this is not the case.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

And how are we being more inovative than everybody else?
As an insider would you like to share some examples?

What cutting edge stuff are we conjuring up thats the envy of everybody else?

You have an opportunity to illustrate all the innovative ideas that is leaving other clubs behind.

Its only flippant if you can give examples otherwise.
If you cant.. its just more sugar coating ....

Alot of us come from a time where the club was leading the race on and off the field.
Over the last 20 odd years we have fallen behind the true elite clubs.

We like to think of ourselves as elite... but lets face it... were falling behind in membership... were falling way behind in turnover.. we have a massive debt.. and we isolate supporters... we arent in the media..we dont show any true initiatives and somehow this is going to land us premierships..

So just set the record straight...!!!
In what area are we the envy of the football world.???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

You can get the impression that some may pray for us to fail whichever way, in the hope to be able to say, "I told you so"
If bleating about how bad we are as a club has any positive influence here, other than to just shoot your load, then don't stop now.
If it hasn't though, one's efforts may just be best directed elsewhere, one would think.

Apart from multiple injuries to key personal ala 2011 finals - there is only one other thing that could prevent us from finishing top 4 and giving it a good shake this year and that is us not finding support for Waite up forward. Unfortunately this is our achilles heal going into 2012.
We know who the guys are that need to stand up and not only support Waite but be able to cover for him, if needed.

I'm really looking forward to 2012, as I feel we will pleasantly surprise even some Carlton supporters such as aboynamedsue, who by the way, nearly made me fall of my chair with his comment.

Time will tell, not long to go now. Fasten your seatbelts folks - it's upon us.

Do you mean pre salary cap, pre draft, and pre black Friday when everything Big Jack had done came back to haunt us.

No-one at the Club says we are elite. Old supporters like to think we are elite but those with any real knowledge know we are still working back to it year by year. Of course we are not elite but again that is just another throw away line from your kit bag.

The reason we have fallen behind in membership is because of the many lean years when all the fair weather supporters jumped off. Supporters don't like losing and finishing bottom and they vote with their wallets. The turnover and membership is now building after we almost handed back the keys not that long ago. It is growing because we are improving and winning.

It doesn't matter what initiatives I put up you will just say they are the equal of everyone else and not better. And you would be right. It has taken many years to just get back to a level playing field let alone getting past the rest. But at least we are almost back with the best.

Our training facilities are state of the art now. Our fitness guys are state of the art and the experience across the board with out Coaching group is the equal of any in the comp at the moment.

Our sponsorship is full and up with the best. There is rarely a day when when we are not in the media. In 2012 we will be on FTA most weeks in prime time.

It is not about sugar coating. It is about seeing what has been built over the last 3-5 years. If you are struggling to see the continued improvement then there is not much more I can say.

Now that I have answered your question, can you explain why you think the club is just treading water keeping its fingers crossed? Tell me how many things were the same at the end of 2011 as they are at the end of 2008.


Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

Exactly and just as an example here is Collingwood's membership over the last 10+ years.

1999 32,358 16th
2000 28,932 15th
2001 31,455 9th
2002 32,549 2nd
2003 40,445 2nd
2004 41,128 13th
2005 38,612 15th
2006 38,038 7th
2007 38,587 4th
2008 42,498 6th
2009 45,972 4th
2010 57,617 1st
2011 71,271 2nd

Stagnant for 4 years, make grand final suddenly goes up by 8k
Stagnant again for 5 years, make prelim final, look a Premiership threat throughout year goes up by 12k
Win flag, all year look like going back to back, goes up by 14k

Notice a trend?

Doesn't matter how many hats you give out, babies you kiss, or how nice your website looks - win and they will come.

If we can hit 50k by the 2012 cutoff, we'll have all most doubled our membership base from the 28k in 2006 in just 5-6 years without even yet making a Prelim so someone must be doing something right...

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"They're [REDACTED]'

Hey - can we even fit 50K members at our home ground? - maybe we don't need to aim that high anyway!

I don't think you can read all that much into membership figures...Collingwood's growth is in part to how good their membership packages are (primarily due to the deal they struck with the AFL, MCC).

Here's a Carlton example...

2000: 27,571
2001: 27,725
2002: 26,503
2003: 33,252
2004: 32,445
2005: 33,534
2006: 28,756

Some awesome years in there early on...some woeful ones at the end of that list. Differential minimal. There's just been more marketing and hence cultural acceptance to buying a club membership.

An example I like better is this one ...

1986: 15,279
1987: 11,118

When was this deal struck?

25% increase after a GF win in 2002 then nothing from 2003-2009 (I assume they had these great membership packages then?), then big increases again in 2010 and 2011 leading into and after GF appearances....

...couldn't be just down to how well the club is run could it?

How about the Hawks then? Membership dropped slightly every year from 2002 to 2006 in the years they missed the finals.

Went up from 28k to 31k in 2007 the year they made the finals. First rise in 6 years
Went up from 31k to 41k in 2008 the year they won the flag.
Went up from 41k to 52k in 2009 the year after they won the flag.

But the two years since after finishing 9th and 7th they've only had a slight increase.

It wouldn't be twisting figures to say that a flag itself gained them 20k in members. 10k the year they were in the mix, + another 10k for the year after.

Premierships or a financial crisis is the best membership marketing campaign a club can have.

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"They're [REDACTED]'

Pretty sure Ed and Swanny struck that deal in 2005. I'm not disagreeing with you here...win and they will come, but in Collingwood's case, it's also a case of Build it and they will come. They are in the position to accommodate. Carlton and others are not.

But I think we're get off topic. Membership has nothing to do with winning premierships. Let's not merge on-field and off-field issues too much. While some go hand in hand and assist the other - the thread on Carlton's Organisational Direction is predominantly for off-field matters pertaining to the club. I think this thread was started as to ascertain how close our on-field readiness is to success.

I have given this a bit of thought. I believe we should win one within the next three years and two in five.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Who said I'd be satisified if we didn't finish top 4?

Of course I want us to finish top 4. Are we good enough to do it? Maybe. Maybe not.

You don't just make the top 4 because you came close to making it the year before. Hopefully we'll improve....but other clubs will improve too. You talk about our injuries - but other clubs had injuries last year too, some had it much worse than us. What happens if have a really bad run with injuries this year? And I think we slipped under the guard of a few teams last year - that won't happen in 2012. A whole new set of challenges will present themselves in 2012 for our footy club. Not the least of which is how we cope with expectations; becoming the hunted.

We may well be good enough to meet those challenges. It's too early to know.

What's not in doubt is that we improved last year and that we have a good list.

But for the purposes of this thread, I'm saying we have further to go than some people think and I am not taking it for granted we'll be top 4 material in 2012.

If we're not, those "serious questions" of yours will be asked....

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

A large part of those expectations is the protection of Judd and Murphy. Similarly to what Geelong did with Gazza jnr has to now be done from a Carlton perspective for two of our main ball winners and arguably the two most talented and important players on our list. This is where I see Paul Williams' role as being a little make or break. The boys either get it (their role at stoppages) or they don't. It's why David Ellard becomes an integral part of this team, it's why Brock McLean needs to get on the park and it's why greater responsibility falls on the shoulders of Warnock, Kreuzer and to a lesser extent, Shaun Hampson.

The hunted is the team that wins the flag, the hunter is everyone else.
When you slip under a few teams guards that means you have beaten a team that did not expect to be beaten because they were not prepared.
The teams that finished above us were Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn and West Coast, we did not beat any of those teams during the year so we did not slip under the guard of those clubs.
Which few teams did we slip under the guard of? Just trying to make sense of this all.

Richmond I reckon, they woz gonna smash us!

_________________

I think we will never ever win one!

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dane's trolling again

Not on this site anyway.

This year the Blue Army is on the march ... hopefully.

I do wonder though ... we are not far ahead in terms of Membership. Its a big pain that Collingwood and Hawthorn have done so well.

My only other issue is the recruitment of too many of the same type of player ... but I am not going to start on this again ... There are too many positives to get bogged down.

My prediction is a Carlton Hawthorn Grand Final. I don't know whether we can win the premiership ... but we will go mighty close.

The first match can't come quick enough for an old Bluebagger like me. I still have newspaper clippings from 1972.

People criticize the Nab cup ... but I am just so happy its almost here ... Its not the real thing ... but it will get me though to March 29.

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

scrap the NAB Cup, you know it makes sense.
ABNS - if we are doubtful for top 4 who makes yours?

I've got mine as:
Hawks
Pies
Blues
Cats/Weagles

Geelong will be lucky to make it.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Membership and total revenue is the more important figure.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=892065

http://www.rippledirect.com.au/images/c ... s_2011.pdf

Gross Revenue

Collingwood - $75,232,702
Essendon* - $51,416,731
Hawthorn - $49,151,009
Geelong - $48,438,196
Brisbane - $42,297,354
Carlton - $39,950,000
Port Adelaide - $37,017,885
Melbourne - $33,514,371
Richmond - $33,403,202
Western Bulldogs - $32,453,030
Adelaide - $30,546,426
St Kilda - $28,287,336
North Melbourne - $26,017,066

Gaming Revenue and Hospitality

Collingwood - $19,201,114 (inc. Social Club)
Brisbane - $12,641,070 (inc. Social Club)
Geelong - $10,083,082 (inc. food and beverage)
Hawthorn - $10,057,704 (inc bar and bistro)
Port Adelaide - $6,822,171 (inc.licenced venues)
Carlton - $4,504,537 (gaming only)
Western Bulldogs - $3,770,594 (hospitality only)
Melbourne - $3,594,013 (inc. social club)
Richmond - $3,410,144 (inc Social club)
St Kilda - $656,918 (Social Club)
Essendon* - N/S
Adelaide - N/S

Membership Revenue

Collingwood - $16,419,687 (does NOT include gate reciepts)
Geelong - $12,121,444 (inc. gate receipts)
Richmond - $11,992,714 (inc. gate reciepts)
Hawthorn - $11,705,117 (inc. gate reciepts)
Carlton - $11,617,793 (inc. gate reciepts)
Adelaide - $10,591,091
Essendon* - $10,363,690 (inc. gate reciepts)
Melbourne - $9,727,844 (inc. gate reciepts)
St Kilda - $7,750,153 (does not inc gate reciepts)
Brisbane - $6,918,708 (inc. gate reciepts)
Western Bulldogs - $6,712,710 (inc. gate reciepts)
North Melbourne - $5,745,872 (inc. gate reciepts)
Port Adelaide - Not Specified

Sponsorship and Marketing Revenue

Collingwood - $22,170,584
Richmond - $17,252,886
Port Adelaide - $16,238,492
Essendon* - $15,532,108
Geelong - $15,517,692
Hawthorn - $14,576,422
Carlton - $12,378,037
Brisbane - $11,033,963
Adelaide - $10,647,497
Western Bulldogs - $8,911,027
North Melbourne - $8,782,975
Melbourne - $8,133,129
St KIlda - $6,938,019

Merchandise Revenue

Hawthorn - $3,065,244
Geelong - $2,583,088
Essendon* - $2,563,026
Carlton - $1,910,251
Western Bulldogs - $1,392,135
St Kilda - $1,049,975
North Melbourne - $1,036,064
Adelaide - $846,018
Melbourne - $806,732
Port Adelaide - $696,759
Collingwood - N/S
Brisbane - N/S
Richmond - N/S

Football Department Spend

Collingwood - $19,412,167
Geelong - $18,821,742
Essendon* - $18,510,078
Carlton - $17,831,197
Melbourne - $16,309,582
St Kilda - $16,974,040
Brisbane - $16,061,596
Port Adelaide - $15,682,596
North Melbourne - $15,280,850
Western Bulldogs - $14,694,994
Richmond - $3,466,748 (all that is specifically named as football spend)
Hawthorn - $2,316,797 (all that is specifically named football spend)
Adelaide - Not specified.

Total Comprehensive Income for 2011 (profit/loss)

Melbourne - $6,040,629
Richmond - $2,752,801
Collingwood - $2,141,436
Essendon* - $2,059,379
Geelong - $1,015,912
Port Adelaide - $877,971
Western Bulldogs - $877,175
Carlton - $742,401
Hawthorn - ($4,920)
Adelaide - ($610,942)
North Melbourne - ($1,110,807)
St Kilda - ($1,271,149)
Brisbane - ($1,855,926)

Hawks have a lucrative deal with Tasmania that gives another supporter base to tap into, yet their membership revenue isn't a lot greater than Carlton's. They've done well out of that deal with their marketing, merchandise and sponsorship revenue.

Doubt that Geelong fans would give a toss about Collingwood, Hawthorn, Adelaide, Carlton, West Coast, Fremantle, Essendon* and Richmond having more members.