Tom's keen but Brendan is stunned.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

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Congratulations CK95

Waite is Carlton through and through.
His problems are injury and brain fades. He has been a excellent servant of the club in the bad times and also very loyal. The problem is, he is getting to the end of his career and wants to make the most of security, we cannot begrudge him of that (lets see how the Carlton Football Club treats family) he also knows he will be pushed for a spot from Kruz, Hammer, Hedo Thornten and the young guns in the coming years.
For what its worth I hope he's there for ever.

Bingo. Something some people refuse to acknowledge = history & culture.

Doesn't that work both ways? Can he ask for anything he wants and expect to get it?

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

Market dictates Cazz. You & I both know that.
Having said that, most of the time long standing Carlton or clubmen would play for unders but reasonable pay.

I would think he's been well remunerated in his time at Carlton, always been one of the better ones in some very ordinary teams. The cap money had to go to someone. Stevens, Fev and Waite were it for quite a few years......

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!

The Market forces at the the top end are based on sustained performance over a long period. Resilience and impact over a full season, year in year out has to come under consideration. Not what may be, but what is factual (in a historical sense) must surely dictate worth and value.

Guys like Simmo and Gibbo and Bradley are/were resilient. You can't bottle that resilience. Is the value of a player based on his output per season or per game. If you only play half a season and are paid half as much is that a realistic expectation?

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I like Waite, his dad was my fave when I first started barracking for the Blues. His manager will always ask for 3 years and the club is correct in giving him 2. I think he will sign on again. Not that many clubs will give up a lot for an injury prone 29 year old. Only sides with their premiership window nearing closure. And the sides that finished above us don't really need him. Waite has been good but could have been much better with the talent he has. He is almost a star, potentially a star, but not quite a star. I hope he can be injury free and really put it together over the next two years. The fact is, if he deserves 3 yrs he will get the extra year at the end of a 2 yr deal.

I think it highlights the need to be really smart with our decision making. The recruitment of Brock McLean puts pressure on our negotiations with other players - he has probably averaged $70k per game over the last two years and has a year to go. Easy for Waite to say that we invested 3 years in an injury prone player his original club was only willing to offer a one year deal. Easy to to say that players coming in are treated better than those at the club.

Anyway I think Waite will be there next year, hopefully he stars for two years and then might get another 2

So where does that leave players such Kruezer at the next contract?
Similar was said about Koutoufides contract after injury. You cannot plan for these things and playing such a high powered sport, you expect these things. Where would it leave a player such as Murphy (god forbid) "if" something drastic happened to him and couldn't get on the park? Should he pay money back in the remaining years if he can't get on the park?
All I know is that when Waite was up and running in the 1st half of the year, we where firing and looking at top4. Jamison the same. We need to look after our assets.

The club didn't do it's due diligence on McLean and paid overs, the ramifications for this are now being felt throughout the playing but surely you cannot blame the players.
I agree Waite will sign and for less than the market will dictate but that is only because he loves the club and is a blue boy! Also pretty sure he goes on veterans list as well?

I can't agree with that. You can't plan for a 20 year old doing a knee. But Waite is 29, has averaged 15 games a season over 9 seasons, and 12 per season over the last three years. There is no reason to be believe that record will improve as a 30 year old. On the balance of probabilities it will deteriorate, but it we get lucky he might manage 12 games next year. His pay should reflect that, with some sort of bonus to reflect that he is a senior player who has a particular link to the club.

McClean is a red herring. It was dumb recruitment decision, but what we're paying him isn't the cause of the dispute with Waite.

I would have thought it was in everybody's interests to get this sorted out before trade week.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Murphy is actually an example of how all players should do it. He knocked back negotiations early in the year and backed himself in to show his worth.
Consequently he had his best year and was rewarded with a handsome contract.

I have no interest in paying "overs" for players because they were there in the "bad times" or because their relatives played at the club. Give Waite what he's worth and a term that reflects his durability. If he doesn't accept that, that's unfortunate.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I'm not suggesting rewarding over the top contracts, but all you here from the club when a player leaves is about loyalty, what happens when the shoe is on the other foot.
How many players do you know that don't play their b***s off when their contracts are under review
Waite, Hammer, Murphy, Thomas, Pendlebury just to mention a few, unfortunately some aslo get injured that doesn't mean that their value and worth to the club is diminished over the coming years. Giving you star players reward for being clubmen and future legends is a small price to pay for the pride and prosperity of our great club.

I think you need to put 2009, 2010 & 2011 into context for Waite.

2009 he did his knee in round 9, kaput. The next season he had some form issues as he was recovering from it, subsequently playing VFL, and then made two stupid decisions and copped suspensions. This season, he obviously copped a fairly serious injury, and we flirted with booking him in for surgery for two months before opting out, only to opt in again at the end of the season.

So in reality he's had two bouts of injury, two counts of club mismanagement and two suspensions. By my reckoning, that makes it 33% his own doing and 33% the club's. To me that tells a story of a bloke who'd just played through two seasons and looked one of the better KPP in the AFL, did his knee and came back frustrated with his output.

The rest is down to the club managing the man and making medical decisions on his behalf. You can argue it both ways until the end of time, so I think it's ridiculous if the club isn't prepared to pay him decent money on a 2 year contract. If they're that worried, insert simple performance clauses that give him the last 25% if he plays through a good chunk of the season, and place an option for a third year in. I think everyone will come to the table on that one.

As it stands he wouldn't earn match payments if he's injured, but are these standardised or can they be negotiated?

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Be careful for what you wish for...

It's that mentality which was one of the main precursors to our spoon years.

Sure Waite has been a wonderful club man and needs to be looked after accordingly but it also has to be weighed against his output, especially his aging years and cap space for the coming generation.

Has he qualified for the veterans list yet?

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

Sorry Jim but that's incorrect IMO. JW has played well at times as a KPP but he has little consistency as one.
As a CHB, he was taken apart too often and made poor decisions with the ball. As a CHF, he hasn't shown the capacity to play the role well with any consistency. His best season was as a floating back man. Unfortunately that role has become redundant for players with average foot skills.
He's been at the club for about 12 years now yet players with half the AFL exposure are far more consistent and disciplined.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

[
It's that mentality which was one of the main precursors to our spoon years.

My mentality is to keep the blue bloods at home for ever. By keeping the blues at our football club the young players will meet, learn and follow the rich history of our once reveared football club.
By the way our precursor to our spoon years was to trade veteran players from other clubs instead of blooding and teaching kids. (just my opinion)

And to R9 of 2009? Earlier this year? He was a late bloomer in terms of consistency, but 2009 was when he was finally settling into a role, only to succumb to a knee injury. That's what I'm trying to say.

Being flung from one end to another probably delayed that by a couple of years anyway, not that you can really blame the club for doing it.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.