I am not sure what i am meant to cop Keogh. We all know Ratts role has changed. I pointed it out to you when you were going off about Varcoe being unmarked at ballups.
You choose to use the word diminished to describe his new role as it helps cover your arse and i use the word evolve as it is a positive step.

When you were making the big calls on Ratts not being up to it over the last couple of years after losses you failed to realise that things were always going to change. He was always going to learn more and evolve. He was always going to get stronger assistants as the list matured and understand his role as head coach better. Most on here realised that was going to be the case and that perhaps is where you will be wrong in the run.

Seeing as your thought process IMO wasnt so sharp on this matter i might refrain from taking on your bit of advice on life and try and work things out for myself.

Keep trying to cover your arse though. Its fun to watch.

The Mark of Cain

Good form is nothing to do with Ratts but I'm sure a run of poor form would be

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I like the list.

I am proud to say I am a one eyed Carlton man. Always have been and always will be. As such I will staunchly defend the club on here against negative posts and as you have a tendency to post in this manner this is why we don't get along on here. I am sure we would get along outside of this forum.

In regards to the topic being discussed, I will admit I have had moments where I have doubted Ratts in the past, but I always thought it was going to take time for him to develop his coaching style and get the right people around him. In my opinion he is developing well as is the team, he also appears to have all the players on side, which is a very good sign. He will get a contract extension and I am very happy with the team he has produced.

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dane's trolling again

I do have a sound understandoing of management structures in my job. Most of the bosses I have had are shifty cauliflower and therefore most management structures dont work.

Face the facts from the article and read it yourself. Ratten's role has diminished. Richardson and Brown have made a huge impact. Its one of the many collective reasons we have improved. I have many friends who I value their opinions on footy and its obvious to all of them that Ratts role is smaller than most senior coaches. To the bozo who reckons Senior coaches have a shitload say in how the team runs. True if your talking about the Pies. Not Carlton.

Nobody refuting my fact about Thompson and McCarthy propping up an inexperienced Hird.

The mark of Cain have finished a new album. Due out in August.
All Jon needs is for KIm to take a few months off work and get Stanier out here and they will gig. See ya at the corner when it happens

According to Keogh when we win it's the assistants good work, when we lose it's sakc Ratten

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

I'll always love Ratts both as a player, and as the Coach who won us the Kreuzer Cup...........

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No ones listening till you make a mistake.

Probably still trying to work out who McCarthy is.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

That and also the fact that they may well have had good inside knowledge against 1 team but by the look of the bombers recent performances I'd say it looks like assistant coaches of the calibre of Thompson and Mccarthy offer very little to winning games of footy.

Assistant coaches make a huge contribution, keogh is right on the difference Richardson and Brown have made at Carlton, and no doubt Thompson, McCarthy and maybe even McCartney are making at Essendon*.

Where his argument falls down is using their contribution to justify being right about Ratts.

He's right about the Assistants.
He was wrong about Ratts.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Who is this McCarthy of which you speak? There used to be an assistant coach at Geelong named Brendan McCartney, but obviously we're talking about someone else here? The Bombers are even more courageous than I thought getting a nobody in to assist the Golden one in the coaches box!



I can't wait keogh!

Last time I saw them at the Corner was for the "This is This" tour back in about 2002? A bloody great gig and it was awesome to see such a talented drummer in Stanier playing with the Scott boys. He has a unique unorthodox style which is exaggerated by his long arms and legs. Absolutely loved his work in Helmet and to a lesser extent Tomahawk.

I actually got to have a bit of a chat to John and Kim after the gig and they were great blokes too - pretty reserved but at the same time very friendly. John was telling me that their mum still thought they were wasting their lives playing music because they didn't make enough money out of it. Kim chimed in and said "Yeah, she asked me the other day if we were still heading off on this album tour. When I said yes, she asked me when John and I were gonna grow up! I told her 'Mum, we've being doing this for over 15 years now' and she replied 'well, you'd think that would be enough time to grow out of it!'"


Classic!!

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"If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself" - Henry Ford

I reckon its too soon to say right or wrong on any of the above....its all about results in the end....and the team plus the coaching staff are all in it together....we fail in September and all are to blame....we put on a good show and then we can confirm that the team on and off field has developed....there is no doubt about the improvement in the team this year thus far....it has been a massive improvement on last season and its easy to see where the improvement has come from....who gets the credit for this improvement??? Irrelevant from a supporters point of view if it gets the results....internally the club should be able to determine the details....

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

I agree with Keogh on point regarding Alan Richardson and Brown. Ratt's needed some better help and I choose to believe that these coaches in conjunction with special tackling coaches and Cordy have been big plusses. I like Ratts as coach. Think he needs the right support cast as this season has proven. But ongoing improvement is required. Keep it up Brett.

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Chris Judd: 'I've since watched some Steven Seagal movies and realise pressure points are no laughing matter.'

I think the thing the Ratten knockers also forget is that he requested new coaching staff. He and Sticks have a good dialogue where (to paraphrase) whatever he needs, the Club does their best to get him. At the end of last season he expressed a need for better coaching staff, we effectively delisted many and went headhunting for some serious firepower in that department which we got, without question. Ratts has learnt a lot and will continue to learn a lot, augmented without question by Brown and Richardson. Having experienced assistant coaches is a must for any new/developing coach, and we're now we're we need to be as far as coaching staff go. It's no surprise that we're also putting more into development than ever before, and that goes with paying more bucks to get quality support staff, no brainer there.

My only gripe with Ratts in the past was whenever our gameplan didn't work, we never seemed to have a Plan B. You could watch painfully once you saw the signs, knowing we had absolutely no answers to a team's conflicting gameplan. I wonder if that was part immaturity in some of our list, part depth issues (particularly in the backline) and part inexperience in both Ratts and his assistants. No one can argue that we have attacked all those areas to vast improvement - Our players have definitely matured both in physical and mental endurance, Laidler, Duigan, Curnow have been amazing pickups and Brown/Richardson/Ratten is proving to be a successful combination with more than one ace in the hole.

Ultimately, Ratts called for more help and he got it. It's my understanding that he suggested moving Yarran to a rebound backline position which has reaped huge dividends. He chose to come and coach from the ground (I really love seeing this), he chose to move office and develop a closer relationship with the players...it's all his doing. Big men ask for help, he did and it's paying off.

I know we've established (unofficially or otherwise) that we need to win at least one game in finals to re-sign Ratten, but I think even if we fall short (for a myriad of reasons), as unlikely as that may be, we'd be crazy to try someone new right when the pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. I wasn't totally sure initially, but in my opinion he (and our full staff) have got what we need to get Number 17.

A few points here
It promotes healthy debate
Reckon Ratten was very lucky to get the job. If he had his playing career at another club he wouldnt be coaching at Carlton. I am big on the best bloke getting the job. IMO Ratts was down the list.
So I cant spell the guys surname. McCartney is the best coach I have ever heard or encountered. Was involved with the Ocean Grove Footy Club where Bren navigated the club to 4 flags in a row. He is a brilliiant tactician and has great people skills.He cuts to the chase as well, but because of his nature he is respected, but because he played 80 games for Newtown- Chillwell and didnt win 3 B and F s for Carlton he wouldnt get a look in for the senior coaching position at Carlton.
Fact is Mccartney would coach the pants off Ratts, but that is the way of the world. McCartney nearly got the job at Port, but guess what they gave it to another favourite son, Primus.
Bottom line is the mix off the field is right and if Ratten recognised he needed help good on him getting it.
As for TMOC John went through a divorce last year and isnt working at Kim's company. Kim works his arse off but they still practice most Mondays with a fill in drummer. The new album isnt as heavy as This is This. Bit like Battlesick. Hopefully Stanier will get his arse down here in the summer and they will do a few shows.

Good to see you acknowledge the club are in the best position to determine the details.

Like the side, you've come a long way from last season

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

If most of your management structure don't work and they are still in business, then I would guess you work for a government agency/department

[/quote]


No senior coach including Hirdy will allow their assistance coaches to rule the roost, because of the simple fact that if things go bad its the senior coach who's arse is on the line.

Ratten has split his role to accommodate new and additional staff. Think about it for a second, if you have more staff and you don't delegate some of your responsibilities to them, what would they be doing?

Further to that a good leader gets the best out of his team by utilizing each persons strengths and addressing any weaknesses in the team. This is exactly what Ratts did and yet you give credit to the result of this, but not the instigator

Speak to the players or people around the club and you will get a much greater appreciation of all the work that Ratts does and how big of an impact he has on this team.

And while you giving credit to everyone but Ratts, why not give the big thumbs up to leading teams that sent some home truths to some of the players and particularly Ratts.

See this is where you continue to let yourself down with comments such as this. What do you base this on!... 'McCartney would Coach the pants off Ratts'. What wonderful hidden insight do you have of the two gents behind the scenes and within the inner sanctum of an AFL club? Or any club for that matter, that the two have been involved in, that could support such a huge suggestion?

Perhaps if McCartney was as good as you have suggested he would have got the job at Geelong after Bomber left or he would have got the job at Port.



And don't bother to go on about how Ratts got the Job because he was Sticks mate, just answer the question I have asked above

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

But... but.... he won 10 flags with the Ocean Grove 2nds - he must be good!!

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

You must have missed where he said it was a FACT that Bren-Bren would coach the pants off Ratts.
A FACT!

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