You make a good point nightcrawler. None of us wanted to lose Kennedy, but i cant imagine what our club would be like now if we didnt have Judd. I doubt Murphy would be as good a player as he is now if it wasnt for Judd. He took alot of the pressure off Murphy, remember his first 2 seasons getting tagged and smashed each week?
The issue i have is our recruiting over the past 5 years or so. I look at other clubs such as Hawthorn, WCE, Melbourne even Richmond. They have a good crop of 19-20 year old's coming through, we dont seem to. I know our last years draftees have had injury concerns and as KPP take longer to develop but the previous years drafting hasnt really produced a crop of good quality kids via the ND. We had several years of low picks but havent really made the most of this. Grigg has gone, Bower was another top 20 pick who is at the crossroads, Austin has barely played, Lucas is struggling. Others such as Kerr, Davies, O'Keefe, Joseph, are probably not going to make it either. We have done well in our rookie selections and our mature age draftees have been good but there isnt the next crop coming through in the same numbers that other clubs have.

Oh I am on the page with the Judd trade. I am on the record as one of its biggest supporters. I was only pointing out that if we go really close this year, we may regret not having Darling forward and Hendo back. It's a strategic observation in the context of the decision to trade for Judd and subsequent decision to trade Fevola (both correct, if the latter late), not a criticism of recruiting generally or of the players drafted last year who have not yet kicked a ball in anger.

Re your other comments, I think you're underselling our recruiting department's achievements. Nobody is coming from as far back as we are and few clubs would have a better success rate than us since 2003. And if you don't believe that have a look at how many early picks the Hawks have had the luxury of stuffing up over the last 5 years before their next wave of mostly rookie gems has pushed through into an already strong team. And Bower was one of the most promising young defenders in the league two years ago. The fact that he has had chronic quad injuries since then is hardly the recruiting department's fault.

Moreover, as our side gets progressively stronger, the bar for what a best 22 player for us gets lifted. So even success stories suddenly seem underwelming. Nobody was concerned about having Joseph running around in the firsts 12 months ago, now he couldn't even get a gurnsey on the weekend with about a third of the team injured. The cookie jar may appear close to empty in the reserves, but that's cause most of the cookies are playing seniors and our bottom 6 is on par with any side in the league now.

The recuriting boffins are getting a lot more right than wrong. They just need to restart the process now to add a new tier of depth to an already strong side.

To me (and I'm a fan of Hendo in the forward line) Hendo going and staying back might be our best result if Waite and Krooz can get fit and stay fit. Our backline is simply too small against the bigger bodies even with Laidler.

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Our winning mid-field has reduced the pressure on our defence over the past few weeks and we have been able to get away with only 2 key talls in the backline. Having Jamison in career best form also helps.

Losing Robinson and Curnow meant our hardness in the middle was reduced and the ease of centre clearances into our defence meant our defenders under greater pressure than they were used to.

We win the ball out of the middle more and it becomes less of an issue - we need more mid-fielders - going back to National Draft 2010 - given what our recruiters should have known about Matthew Watson a better draft was Isaac Smith at 18 and Patrick McCarthy at 34.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

This site is not a recommendation panel to the MC. There are no solutions. Your self indulgent, opinionated clap trap is no less deserving than any one else's. *snip*.

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Not sure if anyone else has posted this, but I thought Kreuzer looked tired yesterday.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

Spot on Agro - we may have been undermanned in defence yesterday, but it was our lack of in-and-under midfielders that cost us big time in the centre square. That's why I'm baffled that they didn't bring McLean in for Curnow/Robinson. If ever he was going to get a go, this was the time to do it.

Oh well, no point dwelling on the past, it's done now. Let's just concentrate on smashing the tiggers in the middle this week.

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"If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself" - Henry Ford

LOL @ the people making the connection between our performance and our visit to the Day Spa last week

Its people like you that make the media write bullshit and make huge issues out of nothing

Smith had enough question marks on him as a one-year (not even) wonder at 20-21, and so far he's played a receive role for Hawthorn against the following opponents:

Port Adelaide
St Kilda
Gold Coast
Essendon*

You're not normally this narrow-sighted with the playing list.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I am. And after the first season Rich produced, what on earth were we thinking drafting Yarran.

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"I had to eat"

I'm not saying there are solutions, I'm asking those who think there are solutions, to offer their alternatives rather than taking the easy way out, and bag the status quo.

Speaking of such an idea, here you are. What were your thoughts on the game, chicken little?

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BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Its not the playing list I am narrow sighted about - but our recruiters missed the elephant in the room about our number 1 draft pick this year.

Like I said - we need more quality mid-fielders in our list, you win the ball out of the centre you make life a hell of a lot more simpler for your defenders. Its not just Jamison enjoying career best form this year, even Thornton is enjoying an "Indian Summer" this season. Isaac Smith may be an outside mid, but you have him running in the mix, you increase your mid-field rotations and reduce fatigue and injuries to the rest of your list of mid-fielders.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Thornton is enjoying a good season because he went back and worked on his game last year, and you're seeing it with his disposal coming out of defence. Simple as that, and he was having a good game even yesterday.

I understand what you're driving at, but we needed defensive height, and we cannot just draft one tall defender and call it a day. We had a chance to net two for good value at each pick and we took it. I'm happy with what we opted for, and I would have been unhappy with Smith at 18.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Great argument.

We already have Yarran, Lucas and potentially Buckley to play as quick outside mids who can carry the ball.

Who were Nathan Vardy and Sam Reid this time last year?

You need to give talls such as Watson plenty of time before you write him off as a poorer fit for Carlton than Smith. Watson is the type of player we need to play on the likes of Lynch, Dawes, etc. Once Watson and McCarthy join Jamison in our 22, they'll be raving about the attacking and defensive work of Watson, McCarthy, Jamison and Laidler.

O'Bree, Fraser,Lockyer,Medhurst, Anthony 2010 should = Houlihan 2011


Malthouse and co had a plan last year and played guys like Blair and McCaffer. Both did similar roles to Houlihan's on Sunday last year but to greater effect and urgency.
If we are to move forward we should take a leaf out of the Carringbusher's book


As for you attack the ball not the man.

What was Ryan's contribution as a forward other than keeping Hurn quiet in a game where West coast dominated anyway.

Disagree.....smith is prtty outside and on the end of the clearance work where he can use his line breaking pace. We needed a Watson more. What did they know about him? He'd need some time like all young talls. You don't know a McCarthy is going to slide on the day, so you can't strategise your pick 18 around 34

What was his contribution you might ask? Well I know Stats never give the full picture but sadly it is all I have against your 'whipping boy' mentality.

The week before vs Port Hurn had 25 possessions and kicked 3 gls. You might say he had an influence on the game off Half Back.

This week he had 10 poss, ZERO gls and 1 inside 50. At the same time Ryan had 19 poss (7 contested), 6 tackles, 3 inside 50's and was far from our worst. So I guess if Ryan's role was to keep a very good player quiet, then I'd suggest he has done a good job.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

I have only just re-emersed myself into footy right now. Complete ban from any media or discussion. I am still super livid about Sunday.

Big opportunity missed. I just cant forgive MC for not covering our outs properly knowing that players were suspect days out from the game. We lose tow super important inside mids and get no cover for them. Carrazzo plays a stinker, lets Priddis kill him and then Ellard has a go at him, too late by that stage!

We needed more bite through there! And as for Warnock!!! Holy sh!t dont get me started

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C'mon Blueboys!

Kennedy can't receive a free kick just because Lynch fell on him.
I don't think the umps were going to fall for that old trick.

Only your opponents can give away free kicks.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I reckon like every other Carlton player, it was a case of chasing tail.
They had possession a hell of a lot more than we did.
Nic Nat can jump high...and did ...all over Kreuzer.

I can't blame tiredness for his or anyone's effort.
We all had an off day.

I never thought Kreuzer could jump very high, and the WCE defender seemed to have the jump on him throughout the game...just not his strength imo. Kreuzer on a lead and his big body acting like a barrier between the defender and the ball, well that's another thing.
We bombed the ball forward, they passed the ball forward. That was no good to Kreuzer.

Just the way I see it...but thyen again he may be tired.
I've been hearing the Kreuzer is tired for 2 years now, and feel that his engine is underestimated. We all know about his Pharlap like heart.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue