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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:48 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Just watched the last quarter again. Amazing effort to get up from eleven points down with less than ten minutes to go. Never say die. Gutsy stuff.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:57 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher
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verbs wrote:
Judd's miss was the horror show.


That actually set the tone for our poor kicking at goal.

Jamison was great as was Duigan down back. Laidler has a red hot go but is too small to be manning up on a tall. maybe a Bower or Thornton especially as Tippett does not work that hard could have been a good match up for one those allowing a Duigan to push onto McKernan.

anyway the disposal and decision making on that field today was appalling. The endeavour was there but seriously turnovers from players that should know better. Chris Judd has never played a poorer game disposal wise.

I thought Warnock was good for us as was Walks. Good to see Andrew Walker playing with some confidence. Murph played well and we got lucky that Adelaide only really relied on a select few themselves. I will admit I thought we may have been gone when 11 points down and to come back from there and win was a credit to the side. But a position where against a Pies, Hawks, Cats or even Swans next week we won't be able to because they'll shut it out.

Could be worse we could Port fans.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:03 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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We won ugly last night. To be 11 points down well into the last quarter against a decent side and get up and win shows a bit of G&D. There's still plenty to work on, and I don't think there would have been too much back-slapping after the game, but sometimes you just need to eek out a win when the team isn't travelling that well...

And I think some of us are underestimating our opponents last night. The Crows are not a bad team. They are well coached and have some exciting young players mixed in with some very good experienced players. After their loss last week, I was expecting them to come out hard last night....so I was very pleased with our start, but when the Crows began to really lock in and lifted their workrate they showed why they beat Hawthorn a few weeks ago. They put the squeeze on our forward line and then ran the ball very well out of defence down to some legitimately tall marking targets. I thought we just hung in there and managed to gut out a victory.

We're not always going to blitz the opposition and look a million bucks, sometimes you just want the team to will themselves over the line - and I think that's what happened last night.

There's several players that have a lot of improvement left in them and as a team things haven't completely "clicked" yet, but we've only lost 1 game so far this year (against the reigning premiers). That in itself is a positive sign.

Ratten & the MC still have a lot of homework to do, and a few individual players need to lift, but I can see clear signs of improvement and we are 3.5 wins out of 5 games. We're not setting the world on fire at the moment - there's obviously some tinkering required with our structures and a few individuals need to lift - but I'm not sure why certain Carlton supporters are acting like we're in 'crisis mode'... :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:34 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Laguna Legend wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Anyone who blames Ratten for tonights effort is a tool.

It was the same players and the same game plan after 1/4 time when it should have been about 7gls to 1gl except for poor kicking. After that all the problems were player related not Coach related.

Hanging it on the players but the Coach was not the problem tonight.

Regards Cazzesman



Well call me Mr Sid Chrome. I blame Ratten for having absolutely no forward line structure whatsoever, we bomb long to no-one, we have mids streaming fwd only to stop and look sideways at 60m out because of the complete lack of movement and strategic forward positioning, we create no spaces and when we do no-one seems to lead into them. we are not well drilled at passing to a leading forward, leading AT the ball carrier, or into an advantageous space. this is a basic training drill at any level of football. we have so many rushed behinds from opposition


We never picked a forward line in the first place so blame the MC (which Ratten is one part of). Very hard to have structure when the targets are all playing in the Ants. Going forward in a side with no tall targets, literally, would be pretty foreign and require a big change in method. Surely you understand that. Then we had virtually no talls in defence against a tall, marking forward line. Be thankful we still found a way to win.

So let's get right.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:36 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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99prelim wrote:

Cazz, you make valid points but our forward line has been an issue for years.
Our defenders are doing their job.


I looked up the stats for the last 2 years. I'm not trying to make any real point here because of all the intangibles but it is interesting none the less.

2010 after 22 rds
Ranked 5th Points For
Ranked 8th Points Against

That was without Fev

2009 after 22 rd

Ranked 3rd Points For
Ranked 7th Points Against

With Fev kicking 86 gls. Waite was gone after Rd 9 with the ACL.

I didn't do this year year because of the extra game we have played and the GC17 blow out.

I have no doubt it all comes down to the midfield gut running and their proper usage from CHF to CHB that dictates the success or failure of Forwards and Defense

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:49 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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jim wrote:

We never picked a forward line in the first place so blame the MC (which Ratten is one part of). Very hard to have structure when the targets are all playing in the Ants. Going forward in a side with no tall targets, literally, would be pretty foreign and require a big change in method. Surely you understand that. Then we had virtually no talls in defence against a tall, marking forward line. Be thankful we still found a way to win.

So let's get right.


Which Forwards in the VFL, perhaps aside from T-Bird, have been in any sort of form to push into the AFL team?

The week before the MC tried their luck with Hendo hoping he would stand up and they got their fingers burn't. Who else did you want them to burn their fingers on?

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:54 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Ohalipin has kicked 6 goals in the past 2 weeks and has looked lively. He would certainly kick a couple every week at FF in the seniors. Must play against Sydney.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:01 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Carlos had a very ordinary game for the Ants yesterday. He's like Hendo at the moment, and needs much more confidence first.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:03 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Lets hope that they start working on their conversion rate in front of goals - it nealry cost us for the second week in a row


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:09 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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I think we all know that, ultimately, Kruezer will make us a 10% better unit. Especially with the new sub rule that places a premium on a second ruck who can also play a significant role up forward.

Structurally (IMO) he's the most important player at the club. Until he gets back, you can try Hammer and Setanta in that role, but you know you're only going to get a very poor man's version of the Big K.

The fact you can pull a guy like Curnow out of the VFL to have him hold his own straight away at AFL level tells you that midfielders are pretty replacable, but quality big guys are gold.

And the fact is, we just don't have enough of them (at the moment) to select from. That's why (again IMO) we look scratchy and patchy and aren't really getting proper reward for effort.

When MK's back up to speed, and hopefully two of the three talls we recruited last year make it as AFL players, we'll look a whole lot better.

And, of course, free agency will hopefully allow us to rip a decent tall away from another club. It'll be much, much easier for clubs to address specific areas of weakness when FA is in place.

Me, I'm happy to have 14 points from 20 despite playing patch, inconsistent football. I'd expect us to improve in the second half of the year (fingers crossed with injuries) which would be a much better result than 2010, when we fell apart in the second half of the season.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:11 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Cazzesman wrote:
jim wrote:

We never picked a forward line in the first place so blame the MC (which Ratten is one part of). Very hard to have structure when the targets are all playing in the Ants. Going forward in a side with no tall targets, literally, would be pretty foreign and require a big change in method. Surely you understand that. Then we had virtually no talls in defence against a tall, marking forward line. Be thankful we still found a way to win.

So let's get right.


Which Forwards in the VFL, perhaps aside from T-Bird, have been in any sort of form to push into the AFL team?

The week before the MC tried their luck with Hendo hoping he would stand up and they got their fingers burn't. Who else did you want them to burn their fingers on?

Regards Cazzesman


Dropping Thornton was unnecessary. He was in decent form. Can read the play, pluck a contested mark and kick a goal. Plainly dumb dropping him. Who's dumb idea was it to drop a bloke in decent for for one rusty and out of touch? Surely Setanta provides more forward presence than Hampson, who is plainly a statue when forward, ok when he's rucking. While Setanta's just coming back too he did kick 4 the previous week in the Ants. I'll take his crappy rucking for a few minutes a qtr for better forward presence. I'll take that until Kreuzer is ready.

Ridiculous too we drop Henderson, which was fair enough as he wasn't ready, then we don't bloody well replace him. How dumb is that!!! With Thornton and Setanta there we have alot more flexibility with Waite. Even though he's kid Watson is still surely a better option against tall, marking forward than "midgets". Bower would've been a better option too. I understand he was just getting back too but beggars can't be choosers. Again, better than undersized defenders.

That all at least has some structure. Our tall structure actually looked better in the Ants than what it did in the seniors. Pity they ended up with nothing on the bench, which cost them. Team selection this week was near enough the worst I'd seen in my time supporting the club.

On top of that, once Henderson is fit I like him played CHB, where he actually has played his best footy, and at 19yo at the time, which was prior to coming here. God knows we need to fill that hole. But that's down the track.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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jim wrote:
Dropping Thornton was unnecessary. He was in decent form. Can read the play, pluck a contested mark and kick a goal. Plainly dumb dropping him. Who's dumb idea was it to drop a bloke in decent for for one rusty and out of touch? Surely Setanta provides more forward presence than Hampson, who is plainly a statue when forward, ok when he's rucking. While Setanta's just coming back too he did kick 4 the previous week in the Ants. I'll take his crappy rucking for a few minutes a qtr for better forward presence. I'll take that until Kreuzer is ready.

Ridiculous too we drop Henderson, which was fair enough as he wasn't ready, then we don't bloody well replace him. How dumb is that!!! With Thornton and Setanta there we have alot more flexibility with Waite. Even though he's kid Watson is still surely a better option against tall, marking forward than "midgets". Bower would've been a better option too. I understand he was just getting back too but beggars can't be choosers. Again, better than undersized defenders.

That all at least has some structure. Our tall structure actually looked better in the Ants than what it did in the seniors. Pity they ended up with nothing on the bench, which cost them. Team selection this week was near enough the worst I'd seen in my time supporting the club.

On top of that, once Henderson is fit I like him played CHB, where he actually has played his best footy, and at 19yo at the time, which was prior to coming here. God knows we need to fill that hole. But that's down the track.


If you watched Setanta play live yesterday you would have understood why he wasn't ready yet. Hampson may be struggling up forward but he still gives 206 a valuable chop out for more then 5 minutes a quarter in the ruck and his ruck work enables us to get 1st use of the ball. Rarely was he beaten in the air last night. Setanta is not a ruckman and never will be. You might take it to have Setanta play but the Oppostion would eat for breakfast in his current form.

We didn't need 2 big forwards because the Crows only have an aging Rutten and a 20 yr old Luke Thompson playing his 5 game and Otten who plays as a HBF mostly and is coming back from a knee recco. None of the 3 were ever going to be able to match it athletically with Walker and Waite if they played well. It was then up to Jeffy, Eddie, Robbo and the onballers to fill in the gaps at ground level and maybe Hammer and 206 to take a few grabs as they have done in past games.

Bower wasn't ready to play. Who's to say Watson is a better option. He had his hands full with big blokes in Cloke and Daws so why should you think he would be any better a week later against Tippett or McKernan. Laidler and Duigan and White did the job against the Bombers so why drop any of them.

If you want to be cranky about anything and Monday morning Coach then start with our disposal and work your way up from there.

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:56 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Hotcox wrote:
Ohalipin has kicked 6 goals in the past 2 weeks and has looked lively. He would certainly kick a couple every week at FF in the seniors. Must play against Sydney.

But he didn't have to play on that gun Jake Edwards yesterday

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:05 pm 
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John Nicholls

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I thought Ratts and the MC got the mix right. Had we had nailed them easy goals in the first and early in the second the talls they had at the other end wouldnt have even been an issue. The midfield and the forwards were getting enough chances but they were just fluffing them. You cant pick a side based on the chance we might kick 2 goals 15 points at a stage of the game.

The gamble to cut supply to their talls by playing more midfielders worked and so did playing a smaller more mobile forward line in the first when our conversion was good but never in the planning would the carlton MC have predicted such poor kicking by our players for the remainder of the game.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:27 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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I went straight from the stadium to the pub and got smashed for the first time in a very long time.... :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

So frustrated about the bad disposals and this bomb it high to small forwards... :donk: Well I calmed down and happy for the points. But

I do worry very much about Gibbs. Does he really want to play for Carlton? Is he off his game because he wants to be traded to the Crows?? If we want to be a top 4 team and a contender for the title, Gibbs HAS to stand up and work harder and attack the ball. Worried about this issue. Anyone know if he is unhappy at the club??

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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:hitcomputer: :hitcomputer: :hitcomputer:

Come on Mikkey we don't need this rubbish trotted out. It is pointless and devisive. NO he doesn't want to go the Crows or GWS or ANY WHERE ELSE. Yes he is happy at the Blues.

He has had 4 average (by his standards) quarters out of 20 this year. Give the kid a break. He has probably put together 90+ of the most consistent games you will see from a kid who started at 18 in a crap team.

People need to get off his back. He will lift.

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:10 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Bomba Sheldon wrote:
Lets hope that they start working on their conversion rate in front of goals - it nealry cost us for the second week in a row
Well it doesn`t help when our goal kicking practice at training consists of mucking around banana kicks from the boundary right at the end.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:49 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Cazzesman wrote:
:hitcomputer: :hitcomputer: :hitcomputer:

Come on Mikkey we don't need this rubbish trotted out. It is pointless and devisive. NO he doesn't want to go the Crows or GWS or ANY WHERE ELSE. Yes he is happy at the Blues.

He has had 4 average (by his standards) quarters out of 20 this year. Give the kid a break. He has probably put together 90+ of the most consistent games you will see from a kid who started at 18 in a crap team.

People need to get off his back. He will lift.

Regards Cazzesman



I am asking the question -not insinuating anything. Gibbs has NOT played well this year - not just one game - when it comes to work rate and hardness - skills are still great. I am worried something is going on in the background - whatever it is. IMHO he is going backwards and that is a huge disappointment. He should be a play maker in the midfield but is mostly used in defense. He should be so dangerous at this stage of his career that he sometimes gets tagged - he is not. I love the boy and I do understand he is not an inside player but I seen him this year avoid body contact and he does not show desperation.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:01 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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It was noticeable that there was little celebration after goals last night. Just get on with the job. None of the self congratulatory grins and fist pumping. Not even from one player who is on notice.
I like it.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:08 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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Bringing in then dropping players who are clearly not ready for AFL (Henderson, Collins), not dropping players who are not performing but are supposed stars (Betts and maybe Gibbs), wrong structures, semi coherent gameplan, lack of basic kicking skills. Unfortunately it comes back to the coach that's where the buck stops.

Look at Hirdy and essendung 2010 and 2011.

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