I seem to recall Waite started last season brilliantly up forward against the Tiges before he fell away. Why play him in the backline and be reactive before the ball is bounced? Shouldn't we be proactive and let the Tiges play to our strengths.

To keep a little experience and height down back play Thornton there. If he is not going to make the team on Thursday with Watson in his first game and both Jamison and Bower out he will never make it.

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"Get ready, Teddy - you're on": Ron Barassi half time 1970 Grand Final

Hope thorton plays on thursday and plays a blinder
Without Jamison and bower is a must against Jack Riewoldt
He knows he is playing for his future and I for one will be cheering for him -a good carlton warrior who deserves some respect

Well said again Frankie. Couldn't agree more!

Utterly ridiculous. No, White is not injured. Once again, you're scaremongering and jumping at shadows at the slightest report of an injury, just so you can see people quote you.

This is the same White who held Burton and Podsiadly goalless last year before he got injured. I have no problem with Waite playing in defence, if he is taking over Bower's role, which is essentially to be the playmaker off halfback, run off their overly-tall forward line, and create play. Have no problems at all seeing Thornton play on Riewoldt either, however, given that Watson and White were picked against Geelong, Thornton wasn't, it seemed to come down to a play-off between those two.

If we're looking for someone to play one out against Riewoldt, then, yes, Waite isn't the answer. However, asking Thornton, Henderson or first gamer Watson to be our creative link off half back isn't either.

I don't see any reason why we can't at least have him spend time down there. Everyone cracks a fat whenever you see Lake swung forward, or when the "Adam Hunter role" was still in vogue.

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

_________________
Cheats never prosper (except in the AFL)

Comparing this situation to WC Hunter or Dogs Lake is ridiculous. Apples and oranges. Talk about facts mate.

Did you see the Geelong game last year? Pods towelled White one on one. Outmarked him easily. White just lucky Pods kicked poorly, ended up with 0.4, could have been 4.0 and game could have been very different had he kicked straight.

Just because Thornton didn't play last weeks means nothing, neither did Murphy nor Warnock, do you think that means they're not in the mix for R1 also? LOL

White is a lovely kick but not good yet one on one down back, and freezes in close. Gets caught with ball, hangs on to it too long.

Your logic is illogical.

As others have said, playing Waite down back is playing to Tigers hands. We're already down Jamo and maybe Bower, and you want to make it worse by taking our no.1 forward away from the forwardline? lol

The only reason White held Pods and Burton goaless was that their kicking was horrendous. If you're being honest they both had much the better of him. His hip surgery may well have improved his speed off the mark which was his issue in those games.

Backline and midfield need to step up in 2011. But primarily defense.

We know what we're gonna get from Judd, Murphy, Simpson, Scotland, Betts, Waite, Garlett, Houlihan, etc, the ones who will determine our improvement will be Laidler, Bower, Duigan, Yarran, Warnock, Hampson, Mclean, Robinson, Henderson, Kruezer, Watson, Armfield.

Spot on.

White showed bits and pieces last year, but mostly not one on one. Lovely kick and moves well for 191 odd cm.

But one on one he was more times than not beaten down back.

Actually thought he looked OK forward, that goal on the boundary against Cats was brilliant.

White is another Bower, not tall tall, not strong strong, but mobilish. Davies goes in same boat too.

Watson is the one. Whether he is ready yet remains to be seen. But he has the height and strength and great kick this backline is crying out for.

The comparison being that good teams are able to be versatile with their key players, and in this situation, our hand is being forced with our two best defenders out? It was, what, 2-3 years ago, Waite was playing CHB for Victoria?

I get the feeling had St Kilda ended up winning the first GF last year, the move of Gilbert up forward would be talked about a lot more on here, and the ensuing need for Waite to do likewise.



I actually thought Burton had his measure a lot more than Pods did, but a passing mark just the same for his first game. White took Podsiadly up the ground a lot more than most defenders do, a lot of his shots on goal were around 45-60 out. If Riewoldt has 4-5 shots on goal from that distance for the whole night, I'll be happy. If he plays him out of the square, we could have problems. Comparing Thornton to Murphy and Warnock, who are clearly playing round 1 is the ridiculous aspect of this scenario.

White and Watson were given a half each to impress, Jamo was already suspended, and they're not going to give him a game to show his wares? I reckon he'll play, as the spare tall on the bench, playing more forward than back, but the cards appear marked.



Can you elaborate as to how Waite playing back is playing into the Tigers' hands? Given that the last few years, it's been Betts who has torn Richmond a new arsehole up front, surely you're not suggesting they're going to play Brad Miller just so we can move Waite down back?

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

If White was going to play he'd have played on Friday night in the Bullants IMO.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Not following that one either, sorry. Watson or Thornton didn't play either. Would probably depend on how soon they knew about the extent of Bower's injury too wouldn't it?

I just can't see Watson playing round 1, the development and the way he's been played in the preseason all seems to point toward easing him into the team in a few months time. If he doesn't play, then it seems they've gone with White two weeks ago, then changed their mind the week after. That in itself is worrying.

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Watson and Thornton have managed 3 pre-season games plus intra-clubs, White has managed one and a quarter. The logic is smacking you in the face, you're just not thinking about it at all. There are only a handful of players who have played all the games from start to finish (Duigan, Yarran, Laidler).

Warnock didn't play against Geelong, do you think he's going to miss round 1? You're putting together a jigsaw with less than half of the pieces. They knew about Bower's injury before Friday (as did we here at TC). White went off injured in the Geelong game and didn't play another minute.

What development? What way he's been played? Please indicate how it differs significantly from any other player. Let me put this in real terms for you, and list the talls who it would seem are not available for round 1:

Jamison
Bower
Setanta
Kreuzer
Mitchell
White

So we're left with Laidler, Thornton, Watson, Waite, Henderson, Austin, Hampson, Warnock, McCarthy & Casboult

You can knock Austin (not quite fit yet), McCarthy (something of a stick) & Casboult (3rd ruck & 5th forward option) off that list immediately.

Henderson & Waite forward, Hampson & Warnock ruck/resting forward and Laidler, Thornton & Watson in defence. We have no wiggle room, the kid will play against a young Richmond forward line and he will be fine. Austin will be available the week after, and Jamison the week after that. Bower & Setanta possibly in three weeks. White could appear as early as round 2 also.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

White wasn't fit for the first two games though.

Warnock is always going to play round 1, there is no doubt that he will be the first ruck come Thursday. On the other hand, replacements for Jamo, you couldn't fit a bee's dick between the best and worst option. As such, it appears that the Geelong game, in that Watson was given a half, and White was given a half (whether this was deliberate after White went off with a corkie, I don't know), it appeared that it was an audition to replace Jamo. Given Thornton had a couple of pretty good games so far into the pre-season and has barely spent more than 5-10 minutes down back, surely they'd have given him a go too? Or Austin for that matter.

With Bower going down, surely it would have made sense, that White having pulled up sore (not injured) from the Geelong game, would be to rest him too, lest we get another tall unavailable for Thursday. Again, none of the other players in contention got a game for Preston, given the orchestrated way of giving our senior players the first half only, it was a need for minutes in the legs, rather than any audition for spots.



I don't think he's played more than a half of football in any of the games so far. The roles he's been given have been fairly innocuous, nothing to suggest the match committee either have the faith in him to play a stopping role, or replace our most attacking defender out of defence. Physically, I don't think he's big enough just yet, nor has the minutes in the legs, and would probably get more out of a full game at Preston.

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BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Exactly what I'm saying... now he hasn't appeared when he needs minutes and you're saying play him. I think he's injured. He certainly received an injury against Geelong.


See above; it wasn't deliberate.


They've been trialling Thornton down forward because of Setanta & Mitchell's fitness. It's similar to Casboult has being given a lot of ruck time.

Thornton has years of back line experience and can step in now. Austin hasn't had many minutes in defence, and resultantly has had as extensive a run into fitness as you would like. He would be ready for round 2 I believe, form permitting.


Yes, but White needs minutes in the legs, as we have both noted. Given he couldn't get out there, I would be hesitant to play him, furthermore at 190 cms he's not a true key defender. Watson is taller, heavier and shown himself to be better coping with an opponent on the lead in the short time he's been about at the club. Are you forgetting White's so-called "great" games against Burton & Pods? He was carved, they just couldn't kick straight. White is a third defender, and potentially a good one, but he's not a full-back.


He's big enough to take on the Richmond forward line, and he has played more than a half in at least two matches. He has acquitted himself well against physically strong opponents, particularly in the Geelong match. You've not paid a close watch and you're filling in the gaps.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Fair point re minutes, but could easily have been a calculated risk to avoid further injury. He might have received a knock or a corkie, but nothing that would have excluded him for consideration for round 1, nor as bad as the knee injury it was claimed to be, either.



Not deliberate that White went off so early, but at the same time, Watson still wasn't subbed on until the third quarter.



Are you 100% sure it's couldn't or was put in cotton wool though? 190 certainly doesn't preclude him from being a true key defender, as has been proven many a time already (see: the counter argument for why Bower will make it). I agree he's not a first choice full back, and in this case, probably not a second choice. The stop-gap measure makes sense, an argument which includes a slight preference for Thornton as a forward also. Could cope with the idea of Watson as a Bower replacement, but not a Jamison replacement.



Who are you suggesting he take though? The resting ruck? Miller? etc

He definitely played a half against Geelong, the time on ground against Collingwood/Richmond wouldn't have amounted to much more than 60 minutes TOG. Did I miss that you flew up for the GWS game?

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Yep, Bower replacement.


I think the NAB Cup TOG would be higher than that. From all reports back from the GWS game, sounds like he played 4 quarters. Against kids, but 100+ minutes in the heat.

My line-up:

FB: Laidler Thornton Duigan
HB: Russell Watson Yarran
CC: Scotland Murphy Simpson
HF: Garlett Henderson Armfield
FF: Walker Waite Betts

RR: Warnock Gibbs Judd

Int: Carrazzo Hampson Curnow

Sub: McLean/Robinson

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

From what I recall White got injured in the Cats game when he courageously backed into the oncoming pack, and following that he was taken off to receive treatment for lower back issue; some spectators tweeting from the game suggested it may have been a hammy, but those close to the action saw a knee to the buttock/ back area. He has had an injury interupted preseason and certainly needs more game time than he's been exposed to thus far to play out 4 quarters against a leading FF who is said to play further upfield this year with Miller coming in to support deeper in the forward line.

White was so lucky not to have bags kicked against him by Pods and Birdman last year.

I was always under the impression that White was drafted as a back up for Jamo if his shoulders didn't hold up...oh yeah, White would still have to earn the spot...it wasn't a given.

Who knows? I do know that TBird could play in the backline, and I know TBird knows what's expected of him. Like White, TBird could do with some luck against his forward if selected. I's pick TBird before White, but who am I to know what is better for the team.

If White is fit and he selected by the MC I wouldn't be unhappy, but I doubt that would happen. IIRC Geelong rested a few stars in the practise game and had Mooney and a couple of others coming in for their first game, albeit rusty, they needed the run.

If we believe in our midfield, we should not play Waite in the backline. Waite kicked 3 in the first rouns against the Tigers and he was still recovering from a knee reconstruction. I remember his first 3 quarters clearly. Betts was not the stand out in the first half imo. Betts kicked a feww late goals when the game was won.

Anyone who under estimated the value of Waite in the forwardline doesn't like/ appreciate Waite as a player.

My first 22 (minus McLean) is the same is jimmae's. I have Siimo at HF and Army on a wing. If Russell is fit he should play HBF, but if he's cramping because of a lack of fitness and is selected, maybe he'll be the surprise SUB.

I do hope Curnow is selected ahead of McLean because Curnow's had more match practise and should be fitter of the 2.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

If Hampson has leg soreness /or an injury that prevents him playing on Thursday, then Casbolt seems the next in line.
Rather than a best 22 it may be the best and fittest 22.