Thanks mate - still got the 'L's on.

Gut feeling.
The 80's.
The winner of Diesel vs Johnno would depend on who got whom first. I'm backing Johnno to run through Diesel at the first bounce and have him carted off on a stretcher.

And Southby would never play on Kernahan BTW. Doull always got that job and always lost.

And as for Buckley vs Andy McKay, see Johnno vs Diesel above.

You have too much time on your hands. Nice concept.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Diesel been cleaned up a few times in his day and bounced back - he would have to a"Gubby" Allan on him maybe to completely stop him

Would you care to provide some examples?

Bear in mind the 84 state game has already been discussed in this thread and the general recolection has been that Doull didn't play on Kernahan the entire game.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

I thought Southby would be the obvious choice on Kernahan followed by a Doull or Perovic - I haven't included Bortolotto or Howell as those two wouldn't have got a game had Southby or Austin been fit for the 81 or 82 GF's.

This is the sort of thing I'd love to have Parko's perspective on. Would he start Doull on Pearce or on Sticks? Does he think Southby is the better match-up for Sticks?

I've gone Sticks vs Southby and Pearce vs Doull, but it could easily be the other way around...

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

I would think Southby would be the best match up for Sticks, I wuld even consider using Austin on Pearce as 'Curly' could play tall on a Hudson or Blight or small on a Bartlett or Matthews.

Diesel = best player I have seen play for Carlton.

Mind you I am 30, and don't remember much before say 1989 or so, meaning I never saw guys like Johnno at his best.

Diesel shouldn't be underrated in any way, if we never let him go in the first place we probably would of won an extra flag in the 80s.

I seen them both duirng their entire careers with the Blues and my heart says Johnno but my brain (what little there is) says Diesel

Its like saying who was the better bowler McGrath or Warne, you can mount a case for either (and Warnie knows all about mounting)

Thine own keyboard hath said it.
10 goals one year.
IIR Doull played on him more than once in state games and didn't his measure.
If you're looking at dates and scores, you'll have to look them up yourself.
I have a house to pack up and move.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

BS:- I am not quite that Sticks and Doull clashed all too often in state games and that Kerna had the better of Doull - if I was a betting man I would say it was a one off occassion in 1984.

Sticks didnt play senior footy with Glenelg until 1981 and Doull represented the Vics in both 1981 and 1984 (there were other years by Doull but this was before Sticks played senior footy). So I would say that its unlikely Sticks played in 81 against Doull so that just leaves the 84 clash.

OK
Thanks
Kerna 1
Doull Nil
Southby nil

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Great thread for nostalgists. We could almsot be cheeky and include Diesel in the Parko 80s side, nt good enough for the ressies apparently!

My gut feeling is the 80s side. 3 flags in 4 years (if we are allowed to include 79 when most of the side was playing).

Fitzy and Sticks I have as equally brilliant leaders, both great big game players and Fitzy actually played CHF in 82. Southby was past his best in early 80s and missed both 81 and 82. At his best little between him and SOS. SOS better at one on ones but no as effective attacking given his dreadful disposal and Southby's excellent disposal. For flankers the 80s wins hands down and that is no criticism of the 90s team but can anyone name any team ever with a quartet of flankers to match Johnno, Buzz, Doull and Hunter. Guys like Buckley and Sheldon suffer a little as their careers ended early but they were guns. Sheldon is as good a kick for goal as I have seen (forget the injury riddled hack who played at the Sts) and Jimmy Bucks was super tough and super skilfull, good to see him and Faser Brown butt heads. Sellers was not as good as Sticks but was an excellent CHF and if he'd had a yard of pace would have been a superstar, great hands, work ethic, disposal and sideways movement, just not fast over the first few metres. Harmes, English, McConville, Glascott, Maylin, Marcou were all terrific players. The reality is the 80s side would never have served up the tripe we delivered come finals time in 93 and 94, and the 82 GF was a classic when we finally got the Tiger off our back and consigned them to 3 decades in the wilderness. Most fans under 40 couldn't imagine just how powerful the Tiges were and what a rivalry we had. Forget Essendon* or Collingwood, rivalry was Carlton Ricmond 1967-1982 - 15 years of gut crunching terror.

Wonder how these teams would match the 68,70,72 Carlton - mouth watering


Come on BS, state games! Doull is 13 years older than sticks so their careers hardly matched up. He was well past his best when a young Stick kicked ten on him and I always put it down to inspired recruiting with Doullie doing the right thing and allowing a hammering by a young guy who idolised him.

Bruce slaughtered Royce Hart in a GF, that's got a bit more cred than taking on a 22 year old gun when you are 35 in a midweek state game

Good point.
Perhaps the State selectors should have picked someone better than Doull if he was 35.
Age is a such good premise on which to base a discussion on ability.
Southby playing on Kernahan would be interesting. Southby would have been a lot younger so he would be better than Doull.
Watson playing on Kernahan would be even better. Watson is 18 and Kernahan is about 45.
How about Hampson playing against Big Nick? Now that's a scenario I'd like to see.

I get conerned when these hypothetical discussions start getting too serious.

I've conceded once. Normally that's enough.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Actually BS I think Southby and Doull are almost twins, in fact i think them and Crosswell and Walls are very close in age, and had the draft been around, Swan MCKay may have been within a year of them, now thats what I call a draft!

Also I forgot all about Kouta. Utter superstar and the most talented guy from either era. The only guy with more talent at Carlton that I've seen was Jezza and the only really similar player to Kouta was Brent Crosswell, super talent but just behind Kouta in sheer ability but huge on presence and personality, anyway both the wrong era. Actually Juddy is Koutaesque without the aerial ability but with tons of pace skill grunt and consistency,

I think what this all means is that flag sides have huge talent, grit and toughness.

By the way think he would ABNS. Buzz was flamboyant but he was a super disciplined tackler. He and Johnno invented forward pressure and it was one of the outstanding features of those sides. I remember Billy Picken remarking on it after the 1981 GF.

[quote="Blue Sombrero"]
I get conerned when these hypothetical discussions start getting too serious. [quote]

BS - opinions are a bit like backsides, everyone has got one.......

I think that most of the posts here have been well balanced and supporters who were fortunate enough to see these sides in actions are a bit torn on whose best. I loved the era of 79 - 82 as these were my first 4 years of seriuosly wathcing footy and being a Carlton member. I did and still do idolise players from this era, more so than the later eras. But i love the 87 and 95 team and its playing group.

Whose was better Johnston or Diesel, who was a better backman Doull or SOS?????? We all know that a lot of it comes down favouritsm rather than being objective (most of the times). I dont think anyone has been too critical on anotehr person's post.

Like gerry atric said, this is a thread for teh nostalgists and I am one of them - love it!!

At least we can compare premiership teams from different eras - something the likes of St KIlda, Footscray etc cant