Ok so we havent traded in a Key Position Backman so we have to look at what is on our list.

I believe now is the time to play Setanta as our main tall back. To play on guys like:

Barry Hall
Kurt Tippett
Jesse White
Jack Reiwoldt
Nick Reiwoldt
Jonathan Brown.

He could not do any worse than Bower this year.

Jamison plays on the smaller key forwards.

What are the thoughts?

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Blue boy thru and thru

i agree. and, as i have said previously, at least one famous key backman from our past also agrees.

Austin
If his body holds up (please) put him in and give him games, ala White/Davies this year.
The kid has shown that he can play CHB, not FB but certaintly further up the ground.
Setanta is not a backman!

^ THIS ^

Setanta has been tried down back and good forwards lose him in the contest. His best football for Carlton has been at full forward. Unfortunately it appears that Austin's body is just not going to let him play regular AFL football so we really don't have a key position back on our list. At this draft I would like to see our first 3 picks on tall key position players. There appears a few key position players available in the draft and it is our main weakness.

I think a fit Waite will be used to take on

Nick Reiwoldt
Jonathan Brown

also the one missed off the list is Buddy Franklin

Nothing has really changed you need 3 tall forward and 3 tall Forwards

2 over 192 and the other 185-190 but can play tall.

Backs
Jamison FB
Bower CHB
Other - TBA

Forward
Waite FF
Henderson CHF
Other - TBA

I posted this in another thread....

I think Setanta played his best footy ever in the first 10 Rounds of 2010 (ie. as a forward). I don't know what happened after that (injury? mental fatigue? worked out by the opposition?), but he appears to me to enjoy, and be more naturally suited to, playing in attack. He has fairly good goal sense and a scoring instinct.

As a defender, he tried to conceal his weaknesses by intimidation. But it didn't really work. He chested up to Lloyd and had a decent game against Brown in a Wizard Cup final, but otherwise he was pretty average from plenty of opportunities as a defender, IMO. Pagan tried to make him into a gorilla and it resulted in bad stress fractures. It also robbed him of some of his mobility, which is his best asset as a 199cm player.

These days, defenders are play-makers and I really don't think Setanta has the skills/smarts to be that for us. He'd need to improve his tank and acceleration, and learn not to give away as many free kicks, if he's going to be effective as a defender. He's more of a chance at CHB than FB, but I think he's basically a 2nd or 3rd forward or nothing at AFL level...

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

Jamo & Bower went backwards this year, and I really don't think we expected it. T-Bird went backwards too, but his stocks have been falling for awhile. Austin had a shocking year with injuries. White did OK before he got injured too, but I have reservations about him.

Unless we can score a 'ready made' in the draft, we're basically counting on the same guys again next year as our key defenders (I don't think Laidler is a genuine KP).

I don't think this is necesarily a disaster. There's not many "gorilla" KP defenders these days. We just need to get the best out of what we've got. We don't have a Scarlett or a Silvagni, but there's still some talent there. It hasn't helped that we've been unsettled by injuries.

I'd almost be tempted to move Waite back to CHB (with Hendo at CHF and either Kreuzer/Hammer/Carlos/T-Bird deep in attack)...

But above all else, I think we need Jamo, Bower & Austin to have injury-free seasons.

I'm not putting the house on Austin making the grade, but I can't see how we could afford NOT to give him one more year (unless his attitude and/or body are completely shot?). If White comes on, and/or T-Bird gets his mojo back, that will be a bonus...

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

every time I think of Setanta as a key defender, all I can think of is Cleve Hughes leading him a merry dance a couple of years ago. We're not talking a top class forward there, just a good ordinary footballer who had grown up with the game and knew how to position himself. certainly handy at a pinch, but not week in week out in defence.

Could be handy as our super sub though as mentioned on another thread. can pinch hit in the ruck, down back and his best position as a forward.

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Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

Just has not got the smarts to play AFL....develop one of the youngsters....

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^

He really is just a dumb dumb footballer.

How many times did Setanta do the dumb thing by just playing on impulsively after taking a mark in the forward 50 totally unnecessarily when he should have gone back for the set shot or at least looked up and widened his vision.

Who is to say that exactly the same thing wouldn't happen in the backline where it is far far more costly.

I also think he'll be giving away too many free kicks playing body on body (he was doing this in the forward line too).
He is a physical player who simply has no idea how to properly channel his aggression.
Discipline is unfortunately one thing that doesnt come naturally to Setanta.

Too big a risk to play him in the backline IMO (if he should be played at all that is).

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Carlton. Yes, Carlton are into the grand final!!!
- Drew Morphett, after 1999 prelim final

You mean like Riewoldt in the GF??

Setanta is not a backman. In a pinch if we are deperate maybe, but as said before, he gets lost by a smart forward that plays the angles.
Guys like Riewoldt, Brown, Franklin, Hall will eat him alive.

His best chance is as a forward or in the "leigh Brown type role" (when was it likely Leigh Brown would have a role to emulate) where he can pinch ruck and play as a ruck rover. problem with that is we have 3 good ruckmen, so that won't be at Carlton.
If he can't make it as a forward, he can't make it.

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T E A M

This has been discussed at length before.

Not all those goals were kicked against Setanta.

If you compare the slaughter of our backmen like Jamo, Bower, TBird and Waite at the hands of the best forwards, then look at Setanta, I think you will find that the former copped greater hidings than Setanta ever did. I mean ever. flowers up the argument there.

Now before you think I'm a huge Setanta fan, let me say I was. Our depth has improved so much that I consider him a fringe player, but then again I don't consider Jamo as a bonafide FB, just our FB out of desperation. As for TBird, White and Bower as KPD's...no thanks...too small.

My great hope for CHB is Austin, followed by plan B Setanta, and if that fails, it has to be Waite. We have Kreuzer, Henderson and a ruckman to take the role as marking targets in the forwardline. I do prefer to keep Waite forward if we can.

If you look at White's effort and considered the impact his opponents would've had had they kicked straighter, I don't think White would be held in such high regard.

The bottom line is that our issues with defense start further up the ground in the midfield.
But we keep on putting the spotlight on Setanta.
Jamison and Bower had a disastrous 2010; especially Jamison.
I reckon the spotlight was on Jamo in the 2nd half of the season with some of his lacklustre defensive efforts and those pitiful frees he gave away.

But yeah, keep the spotlight on Setanta, and I'm sure you'll continue to avoid the real issues.

Like last year we have a list (above) of potential KP backs and really only 2 have to stand up to make FB and CHB theres over the preseason. Fingers crossed our listed players step up in 2011 and our midfield improves their defensive side of their game.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I agree that he isn't the smartest footballer in town.

Nick Reiwoldt played on in the GF and got caught...and he was a #1 draft pick.

Talking of dumb frees against, have a look at Jamison as the major culprit of dumb frees against followed by Bower.

It's easy to take pot shots at Setanta. I wish the same scrutiny was given to our other prospects for fair debate.

There's a reason we declared that we are after a KP defender in the trade period and had Jacobs on offer to get our man.
Answer: every tall defender on our list is suspect because of deficiencies in their physical make up or general skill set.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

delist ohailpin - the experiment has failed

white looks good - maybe he could be a forward?

austin -mmmm hopefully has good pre-season

recruit KPP players only!!!

we have yopung buckley coming in 2012 so our midfield is set

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Better to die standing than to live on your knees...
CAR17ON