That's all fine bluegirl, but I didn't think there was a disloyalty penalty for anyone who honestly thinks we aren't going to win a flag in 5 years.
In the last nine years 6 sides have won flags, 10 haven't. Kade Simpson is a good player, not a great player. And he'd be a better player if over the last 5 years he had worked on his right foot. Little things make a lot of difference. In the second half of the season we have beaten only the bottom four. Winning a flag is really hard. Where is our improvement going to come from. You seem outraged that I don't rate Murph and Gibbs as greats. They are just not going to be able to influence a game like Hodge, Judd, Reiwoldt, Goodes, Franklin etc. It doesn't mean they aren't very good, it means there wasn't an absolute superstar in their drafts. Look at Joel Selwood, is he better than Gibbs? That's the intensity needed every game. You need a lot going right to win a flag. And you need to be realistic. The idea that you either rate us as premiers by 2015 or support someone else is not helpful. I have been at the MCG to see us win 8 flags. I've seen how good, and tough, and relentless those sides were. I don't think we have that talent as yet and I don't think we will be able to improve enough via the draft to get there in the next 5 years. If that means I am not allowed to barrack for Carlton then so be it....I'll continue to barrack for them. But I grew up in an era when supporters were clear eyed, and expected to be the best. I hope to see that era again. We need more toughness and talent to get there.

I think you are doing Gibbs,Murphy and Simmo a disservice by limiting their futures to only good, never great.
They have every chance to be great.
The team just got over a massive slump, and are on the improve.
I find a few of the posts overly negative, and not just yours.
It isn't unrealistic to think we can improve and strngthen as a team in the next few years..and have as good a chance as any other team.
I love this team...this one now...with additions..not some far away team that may or may not ever exist.
its the fact that you can't see their potential that upsets me i suppose..but you're right.
I'm not the boss of you or anyone.
I just thank God that many including the coach, don't agree with you, and I hope , with all my heart that you are proved wrong.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

We have a long way to go. In the next 4 years ... not a snow flakes chance in hell. If we recruit really really well ... maybe in year 5 (but I doubt it).

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

Jake Edwards was the answer in the forwardline and we delisted him.

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You heard it here first!

What was the question?

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"They're [REDACTED]'

Untill we can find someone who is going to be the answer like Jake Edwards was going to be then we will not be getting aywhere near a premiership.

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You heard it here first!

who's jake edwards tearing it up for at the moment?

nobody?

oh yeah thats right - shit attitude and not that good

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

People at Carlton were comparing to Wayne Carey three pre seasons ago. Edwards could have been anything and Carlton should have retained him on the list.

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You heard it here first!

Of course we will

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GO BLUE BOYS!!

IMO.....our only deficencies are consistency

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I see you watching me watching you.

I predict there will be a Blue Man on the ground doing backflips in the year we win the next flag.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

People at Carlton take acid ?

He wasn't even as good as Bentick or Hartlett, and you start comparing him to Wayne Carey ?

Maybe hotcox IS Jake Edwards on acid.

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dane's trolling again

Interesting call by Josh earlier on. To an extent I agree.

And this is NOT a huge anti Ratten rant. But I look at what we have on this list and wonder what a Roos or Malthouse would do with them. Just in terms of having the credibility to demand consistent effort and a willingness to sacrifice for each other regardless of how the game was playing out.

At times I think that an outsider with a lot of runs on the board and with no ties to the current power structure in the club is the only way that a true shift in mindset from the playing group will be achieved.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but a look at the margins in our games this year is very enlightening. Can anyone remember having a season with so few close games? To me that says a lot about the mindset of our playing group.

In answer to the thread Q: Yes.

In my view, we are not that far off. To win a flag, you need cattle, gameplan and attitude.
The one thing that is the hardest/takes the longest to develop is the cattle. Our weakness is in the other two, which can improve pretty quickly either through learning/maturity or change of coach.

Cattle
We have most of the cattle we need. Judd, Gibbs, Murphy, Kruez, Warnock, lead one of the most potent midfields in the comp... potentially (see attitude). Most other teams would kill for this group. Last year, Judd/Murphy/Gibbs all in top 10 at the brownlow. Selwood is awesome but I don't think Gibbs would be far off if he played at Geelong. We are lacking a key forward and a key back. Maybe just one of those, depending on how it affects the rest of the team. I am prepared to back Bower, White, Davies, Jamo and potentially one good recruit to hold down the back half as they grow and learn. Jamo has not had as good a year as last but he can play a similar role to Presti, if not better as he improves over time. Up forward, I am pretty comfortable with Hendo & Waite, with Betts, Garlett & others at their feet. True, they are not Buddy/Roughead/Rioli but they are quite capable of doing some damage with good structures.

Gameplan
We are definitely lacking in this department BUT I reckon Ratten has shown an ability to learn and improve. Our forward strategy is much better this year than last. I think we are amongst the most efficient teams kicking for goal comapred with last year where we were amongst the worst. We have more options and we are working out tactics to suit our team. I believe this will improve further over summer. We basically need 2 forwards leading out from the goalsquare in different directions/depth with the smalls running towards goal to pick up the crumbs or provide running options. Perhaps one v.tall providing a roaming option around the pocket.
Whilst we don't actually do it very often, we need to play more & quickly through the middle. But Ratts knows this & keeps trying to teach the guys. I think the problem here is either with his ability to communicate effectively or the players inability to learn and apply, rather than 'we simply have no idea'. If Ratts continues to be unable to communicate, we will find someone else for the job - but that will be next year. We have improved our backline 'merry-go-round' with players being dropped for this or not being hard.
Bottom line, Ratts has shown an ability and preparedness to learn and develop our gameplan. With another season, I reckon we will see further improvement.

Attitude
IMO, this is our biggest problem. When we bring our A-game, we are competitive with all other teams. When we don't, we can drop games against those we should beat. Thankfully this season, we have won pretty much all our matches against the bottom 7 teams, except losing to Brisbane - when they were on a winning streak - and the shocking loss to the Bombers, first up. We lost games to those around us on the ladder - games we SHOULD be able to win (Freo twice, Syd, North, maybe Hawthorn....). One of the areas I wanted to clean up from last year was our losses to bottom teams. (Along with stringing games together and not allowing large losses... both of which we failed at.)
It seems that many of our boys are a little cocky and play like millionaires. They need to come to EVERY game like Judd or Selwood. Like the Saints did last year. Like Brisbane used to when they beat up on everyone, no matter how crap.
Not sure what the solution is here. Think Ratts is aware of it & hence, dropping senior players who come to play half-arsed. BUT something needs to change in the minds of our potential stars. Do the small things well. Play hard. Leave it all on the field.
But, I believe this will improve over time as players mature and disappointment mounts.

In summary, I think we can improve further & quickly. We need a player or two, natural development of our list, tinkering with the gameplan & tactics & an attitude transplant. I think it can EASILY be achieved in the next 2-3yrs. IF WE WANT IT ENOUGH!

as unlikely as it looks from september 2010 - the next Carlton premiership might not be as far away as people seem to think.

after Geelong finished outside the 8 and Thompson looked like his time there was coming to an end - who would have predicted that they were soon to win a flag?

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My Blue Heaven

Yeah, we'll win one, we have Judd!

Seriously, though, we don't need a spark as much as an epiphany.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Different forum... Same pro Edwards dribble...

Jake had his chances at senior level and didnt take them. He wasn't even that good when playing for the Bullants come to think of it...

If indeed he was as good as you're saying, why would we get rid of him post Fevola trade when we were screaming out for a key forward ? And why did the other 15 teams also give him the a*se in the ND and PSD last year ? You want the answer ? Thats right.... He was a dud Troy Longmuir style!!

BTW, I dont know where you get your facts from, but Jake Edwards was NEVER compared to Carey. A half eaten apple maybe, but not Carey...

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James Hird and Essendon* FC - #FOREVERDRUGCHEATS

I can't wait for Jake to rule the world and make you all eat your words

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I was comparing him to Drew Carey Hotty, Drew not Wayne!!!

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I hope Essendon* folds.