Don't know what your talking about baby with bathwater.

Right now, today, how many elite mids do we have?

Answer is 2.

Lucas may develop into one, as might Yarran, and we might get Drummond freeing up Gibbs to go on-ball.

But right now, we have just 2 elite Mids.

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It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it

The answer only fits this thread because West Coast have said 'come and offer us something for our pick 4. And by the way - we're after a quality small forward'...so of course I rate Eddie. I'm a huge wrap for Eddie, but this is a business and my own personal view is that to get another quality mid, I would trade away quality to get quality. If Andrew Gaff was sitting at pick 4 I would trade away Eddie and our first pick...no question. Because we need another A grade mid.

I've not much doubt that both Yarran and Garlett are going to get better. I'm also of the opinion that you can't play 3 of them in the one side every week. We got lucky in the Fevola trade...now's the time to be smart about list management. Sure it's a risk - but I think it's one that needs to be made.

^^^^

..we might need another A-grade mid [i kinda agree], but Betts is close to becoming an A-grade small fwd in his own right.. ..first half of his season was AA quality, and he's still very young so should only get better.. ..plus, if he can start getting more of a run through the middle, he can bring his [near] A-grade skills to the middle anyway..

..Yazz and Jeffy should get better.. ..how good they become we won't know just yet, but their potential looks very good.. ..but also, they're sharing alot of the F50 this year.. ..but with rotations, and maybe betts thru the middle, jeffy up and down the wing, yazz has shown good glimpses off HB..

..what i'm saying is, with the good chance of rotations being capped, mids may be rested up fwd, so our smalls being able to play diff roles briefly will come to the fore.. ..so it need not always be those 3 smalls stuck together up fwd..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Agree Kahuna - when reviewing our list and performances this year only player other than judd that could be considered an A grader at the moment is Eddie -41 goals from a small forward almost gets him there - but needs to be more consistent

Having said that perhaps eddie may get us pick 4 because we wouldnt even contemplate trading judd murphy gibbs or kreuz

Murp gibbs and kreuz are hopefully in line to get there

Agree that yazz garlett and yazz all different

We could do with another class mid but right now I would prefer a class defender.

Our midfield is emerging but I cannot say the same for our defence.

Strong Carlton teams of the past always had strong defenders ... Doull, Southby, D. McKay, Harmes, Hunter ... I could go on and on. We are not going to get to the next level without talent in the defence.

Agree with this - if we are to trade Eddie for pick 4 then we need a top-line CHB.

S0meone b/w 19-23 no projects thanks not for a pick that high for a team that isnt re building. We want a young ready made gun with room to improve.

DOn't ask who we could get because I wouldnt have the faintest.

Unsure how we could get another mid other than packaging Walker and Houlihan to GC for a high pick.

To improve our list we need to make these tough decisions. Last night showed that we have a very talented group in Judd, Simmo, Gibbs, Garlett, Murphy, Warnock, Henderson, Waite but after that we fall away badly. As was the case last year our bottom six is poor and gets exposed against good sides and under pressure. We need to get better players into the club and to do that we need to trade players with currency. Look at the Fev trade, we got Lucas and Henderson! Guys like Betts, Walker, Thornton, Hampson, Jacobs, Russell, Bower should all be up for trade and a deal done IF we can get more talent into the club. It is the only way we will go from a finals side to a premiership challenger. We desperately need some more class on ballers and a key defender.

As for Betts I agree with Doc. All three can't play in the same side and I believe Garlett will be a lot better. Betts goes missing in big games and whilst he has currency he should be traded. If we could get a big bodied defender, one or two mids ala Rischettelli and maybe another early draft pick like Lucas added to the development of Yarran, Casboult, Austin, Lucas, Touhy, Ellard and the return of Kruezer and maybe McLean we could be right up there next year!

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

i really like the idea of getting Drummond to free Gibbs to go on-ball or have more freedom to be more attacking. Make it happen!

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Carlton Premiers '10

..Betts carries a lot of defensive attention up fwd now.. ..who's to say yaz/jeffy will perform as well once the spotlight lands more squarely upon their shoulders..?.. ..Jeffy's coming on brilliantly yes, i agree and am loving his development.. ..but i have no doubt in my mind it's because Betts free's him up fwd..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Yep. Betts always gets the no.1 small/mid defender whos only job is to stop him and follow him everywhere.

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Carlton Premiers '10

We got one last year in Lucas and next year we get Dylan Buckley and probably be forced to use an early pick through the bidding process.

This year the priority is KP, especially down back. Also a KP forward to develop would be handy for when Waite and Setanta are over 30 in a few years.

Players have a few bad games and the masses want to trade them. Betts has and a bad few weeks but doesn't necessarily go missing in big games. His position will always be a difficult, often inconsistent one. Doesn't help when we kick it high to him like he's 6'6" in a 2 on 1 rather than the 2'6" he is. Does show our blokes respect him as a player but that has to take it's toll. Walker's important as we need bigger bodies as we start to join the big boys. Blokes with experience. The key to Walker is to play him in his correct position. Which isn't defence!

The Eagles have stated they'd give up pick 4 for a good small forward. If they wanted Yarran, who I think is the only one they'd go for of what we have for that pick, I could go with that IF we could use pick 4 on contributing to getting a KP backman. While Yarran gives me the impression of being highly skilled, freakish, he worries me he' will go missing when needed. It is early days for a kid of 19 so I could be going early but that is my fear. By the same token I am happy to keep him too but he could be the one amongst our small that gets us that type of pick given his age and skills.

We have one ruckman too many and one small forward too many. We lack in the key defensive positions. What's the obvious? Betts leads our goalkicking and is wonderful overhead for a player of his size and I like Garlett more than Yarran, up to this point at least.

Surely you trade Betts before Yarran??

..surely if we keep trading good players, we're not going to move forward.. ..how about we take a year off..

..also, what's the bloody point of trading in for another class mid when we have Gibbs played out of position already.. .... ..far too often our club plays players out of position..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

We definitely need 1 more class midfielder but we also need a class backman and a class forward.

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

Its about maximising value- sell high, buy low.. we struggle with this concept.

Getting a good defender is not why betts drops marks he should take and doesn't convert set shots from 40. Lloyd said on radio betts was arguably our most important player mid yr but has fallen away badly. He has failed to take the step up. Can u trade him and ruin the close 3 brothers?? I dunno. All I know is betts has let us down the past couple months. Will he ever step up to be a true consistent gun??

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It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it

I don't think this line of thinking isn't in line with modern day football. There are some compelling reasons to trade Eddie Betts. Both on-field and off-field. Because we've been over the the off-field ones adnauseum, the on-field ones relate to consistency, particularly against the good teams and where we now rate him as a small forward. I have him - in 2011 - as our number 3 small forward. Now - while #3 rated small forwards are mainly kept at footy clubs - we're entering into a compromised era of trading and drafting - and all emotion must go out of it when we're talking about trying to get Premiership #17.

As for players playing 'out of position'...I'm not convinced that's particularly relevant in today's football or with Gibbs. Like Brendon Goddard, Gibbs is a utility - who will have stints across half-back, in the middle and sometimes drift forward. It's no coincidence that this type of player is the best kick in the team with a very smart football brain.

But we did get McLean for the low low price of pick 11

..ok, ,aside from the few silly off-field mistakes he's done [as a kid], i'm not sure he's such a disruptive force off-field.. ..in-fact, off-field he could play a component in helping keep jeffy and yazz happy in melbourne.. ..no doubt he's helped their transition..

..now, you may rate him as our 3rd best fwd going into next year.. ..but we'll have to wait and see whether you're right or not.. ..personally, i don't think you are.. [at least for next year] ..looking at his on-field contribution.. ..he's given goals, assists and tackles [improving] in pretty much every season he's been at the club.. ..last yr he even played games for us in a tiny chf lead-up role.. ..yes, he's in a bit of a form slump i agree.. ..but, more-so with his goal kicking efficiency, since he still manages to get his opportunities.. ..i also don'tt think we can under-estimate how much it helps our other small fwds to take less heat when all focus goes to betts..

..as for the idea of him just kicking goals in junk time.. ..ppl can be hypocritical in this regard.. ..if a mid is heavily tagged and takes a while before blowing off the tag, it's attributed to their work-rate.. ..if a small fwd manages to break loose late in the game, it's junk time goals.. ..kinda a crock ain't it..?.. [that line of thinking]

..ok, lets look at this compromised draft.. ..trade quality to get quality.. ..i can dig this.. ..but, trade this year's leading goal kicker?.. ..trade the past 2 seasons 2nd leading goal kicker..??.. ..also, take away all his tackles and assists, and you'll see our fwd line isn't anywhere near as effective.... ..he's also proven to be highly durable, which shouldn't be under-estimated..

..as for the Gibblet being a utility, i'm not entirely sure.. ..for me, a utility is one that can play fwd and back as a kpp.. ..the Gibblet can not.. ..what he can do, is play a variety of positions cos he's skillful and composed.. ..but, that's not making him a utility, instead it makes him a versatile mid that plays the modern game which is composed of a few kpp's a ruck or two and the rest mostly mids.. ..like bloody school footy more and more, a roving pack of mids that see ball, chase ball, kick ball..and repeat..

..players like Goddard and Hodge aren't common.. ..and, they also come from teams that can spare them from the middle.... ..but i honestly believe you put your best mids in the thick of the action.. ..and i repeat, our midfield is nowhere near good enough to put gibbs down back to 'plug a hole'.. ..cos it opens a bigger hole in the middle i believe..

..when ppl rate our midfield, it includes Gibbs..if we dont play him there [as we currently dont, and you and others profess we continue not to], then our midfield becomes below average..not even average.. ..our midfield lacks class, it lacks depth.... ..hence the very reason for this thread..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..