I am lucky enough to work at a place where there are more Carlton supporters than any others. During a lunch break
6 of us broke into a discussion about success at Carlton.

None of us care if Ratts continues to coach, but at what stage will we know weather he is the right man ?

The questioned was asked, if we loose this first final, then are we no better than last year?.

A couple of the guys believe we will be involved in heavy trading this year, i personally don't think so.

One thing that we all seemed to agree on was, the fear of being a mediocre team for the next 5 years. A team who makes
the 8 every year but never plays in a grand Final. How disappointing would that be esp with the list we have ?

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BRING BACK PERFORMANCE BASE PAYMENTS !!!

Prior to the season, most experts had us out of the 8 due to the loss of Fev. Even if we lose the first final, we've taken definite steps forward compared to last yr (forward structure, rucks)

You never know, but I don't think we will win one if we consciously think we are in with a chance every year and recruit accordingly, I think it backfires. I think we have to do a little better than simply make the eight and go out in the first round, to think that we can top up. I think the Pies were very clever last year, I don't think you can approximate that kind of thing willy-nilly.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I agree with the trading comment. Plenty of players we can clear out in a player for player deal and possible 20-30 picks.

We are moving in the right direction,
and I'm glad that Ratts will be given another year at least.
100% we can get a flag in the next 5 years.
We aren't like Kangas and Dogs...where you just are never sure they can do it.
There is so much class just bubbling away ready to explode in the next year or 2, and some of our less talented players are, as already stated, being quietly shipped out.
We already have some promise in our Reserves, and some clever trading and drafting will strengthen us.
I don't fear that we will do what Vossy did. Not at all.
The players we have right now, with Kreuz, Houla, White and Lucas..plus hopefully some amazing new blood...and players like Casboult getting game time....wow
I don't know how anyone can doubt where we are headed.
In fact...
the future is so bright
I gotta wear

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

Who are you suggesting are 'experts'?

I believed at the start of the year we should be at least top 6 this year and we're still a chance for that.

In terms of winning a flag in the next 5 years, we'll need to see a few more dividends from all our recent draft picks.
I look at the rapid improvement of the likes of Melbourne and Freo and think that perhaps we need to look closely at the abilities our current development/coaching staff.

I think these experts are those in the media who are heavily involved in footy, including past players and those still involved at clubs. Everyone knows the general consensus was that we would either stay about the same in ladder position or drop...i personally thought we would finish 7-8 which we have. To predict top 6 at the start of the year was pretty ambitious.

I agree though that the kids at Melbourne and Freo are developing well but i would have thought ours are going just as nicely. Looking at Henderson and Garlett in particular have come on very nicely and its easy to forget that even Bower, Grigg, Armfield, Hampson, Robinson, Jamison and Warnock have only been in the system for a few years and havent played many games...Yarran and Lucas will be stars too.


Having said that i wish Stephen Hill, Morabito and James Frawley played for the CFC

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Carlton Premiers '10

Carlton will win a flag with Levi Casboult in the forward line

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My Blue Heaven

I remember Mark Robinson at the start of the year being challenged for tipping Essendon* to finish top 8 and Carlton missing and the only reasoning he offered was 'Essendon* simply have a better list!'.

jt, I don't think predicting top 6 was ambitious.
I believe(d) we have a very talented raw young list and with a good preseason with good game development tuition we should've been in the top 1/3 of the competition.
Offloading Fev was always a positive in my mind as we could finally develop a true team structure.

Also in regards to Fremantle, although they have promising kids their key positions are all filled with experienced players which gives them the edge over us...

Power forward: Pavlich
Ruckman: Sandliands
Defenders: McPharlin, Grover and the injured Tarrant. In terms of experience can throw in Duffield and Hayden...they're pretty experienced down back.

In contrast for the CFC...

Forward: Henderson and Waite (Only been playing forward regularly this year in absence of Fev and coming off knee construction). No Kreuz to swing down there has hurt us this year as the other 3 ruckmen arent up to it at this stage.
Ruckmen: Warnock, Kreuz, Hampson, Sauce...all young and promising. Sandi took a while to become a star.
Defenders: Jamison, Bower, Davies, Armfield, Russell, Gibbs...all still pretty young and way down on experience compared to Fremantles.

Where we have extra experience is the midfield, so it was dissapointing that they seemed to get alot of easy clearances, even with Sandi dominating.

Future is bright. I recon we'll finish higher on the ladder than Freo next year.

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Carlton Premiers '10

im totally with you on all of that, but my reasoning for a 7-8 finish was while it was always going to be positive trading fev, it would just take us a while to develop that structure you're talking about since 'kick it to fev' was our gamplan going forward for so long. This year was about developing that structure and adapting to the new game plan. Now that thats over, I expect a top 6 finish next year.

lol @ Essendon* having a better list than us

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Carlton Premiers '10

Difficult to call....we still have deficiencies that need to be addressed at seasons end which were not addressed last season....we have won two less games than this time last year....how do you gauge if we are moving forward?

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

What recent draft picks? Are they good enough?

We've had virtually no second rounders for donkey's years and what we've been left with have often been middling flankers and pocket players. We tend to overrate the back-up for Judd and the three 'number ones'. We have Waite who has always been talented, Bower should be kicking on, and so should the unlucky Walker but beyond that it's a mixed bag with the jury still out. That's about a handful that may not have come on as expected but injuries have played their part. Otherwise it's par for the course. We are placing too much faith in players that should be a bonus for the club, not the focus. We could give them some help from more experienced types but then you neglect your duties in bringing in a constant influx of fresh talent. There’s no simple answer. You can’t scapegoat a few areas and be baffled when the ‘required’ change doesn’t bring results. I tend to think an entire mindset can spread to different departments. I am willing to give Hughes himself the benefit of the doubt but I’m not going to say that the list we’ve given ourselves is a great one or really close to what it could have been. There have been too many years in a row dealing with one or two ‘problems’ only and too many foot-solders expected to do too much. I don’t think you can chase a premiership that way. You may fall into one if you are lucky but that has never been what Carlton was about in the past. It’s been Judd, a few high draft picks and a hand held behind our backs with two fingers crossed.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

You don't win premierships if you can't tackle, can't kick, don't have key defenders & only score through overlaps. A lot of our players are no where near hard enough. There is a lot to correct in 5 years.......If I were a betting man I bet against us to win a premiership within 5 years.

One major problem we are having is that our young players are simply not developing properly. So many of our players have gone backwards or stayed at the same level. To win a premiership within the next 5 years we really need a big clean up. We need more tough nuts and hard running players.

If we can't develop them, we need to recruit ready-made players from other clubs. So I think we should draft more players like Armfield - an early 20's players instead of a very raw 17 years old.

How's the mushroom tea BM?

The team this year is made up of different personnel to last year. Compare the team that played in the finals last year to this year.
Next year will be different again.

Its hard to know how we will go over the next few years. Winning a flag is very hard thing to do. It takes a lot of luck. Luck with form, luck with drafting and luck with injuries. I wouldnt bet on us winning one but we have as much chance as anyone.
We need to stay on the path we are on. Back the plan and work as hard as we can to achieve our goal.

Next 5 years ? doubt it.
We have Judd who is a superstar, big K will be a superstar and has the grunt and will to impose himself. Gibbs is super talented but probably doesn't have the make up to go from very good to great, he is more a Dal Santo than a Luke Hodge and I don't think Murph will get beyond very good.

Geelong, and the Bullies will slip. Melb and Freeo will rise, both have a huge crop of 1-3 year players who overall seem more promising than ours. We haven't got much from the draft beyond the first round.

At this stage Walks, AJ, Jamo, Eddie betts seem to be going backwards. Yarran is a great talent, but will he be better than Stephen Hill?

How much imorvement do we have in us before the GC juggernaut starts dominating? The Dockers have 10-12 first and second year players who are regulars/semi regulars and are getting better, we only have a few. Juddy is already showing the strain of carrying the team on his shoulders.

I think we will maybe get to a prelim in the next 5 years but won't be good enough for a flag, and given the draft concessions we won't be able to build much talent over the next 5 years.

Some of these repliers seem so completely disenchanted with our Blueboys, that I wonder they don't consider starting afresh with the great 'GC Juggernaut.'
If you really have no belief for a great future with Carlton, why do you stick around..or is it only going to be great if and when you get the changes you think the club needs?
Gibbs and Murph will only ever be good...not great?
You still think only Judd plays well?
Have you seen Simmo lately?
In fact,Judd has been a little off the boil, but others have stepped up..and the boys, since their slump have been hard over the ball, and tackling, even if that can improve..(within 5 years was the q.)..and fighting the games out till the end.
They are improving.
There is a LOT to look forward to.
As for Ratts...he is a coach I'm glad we have right now because he is sincere and passionate.
When I see Mick Malthouse treating another human being like a nobody (again..) at his presser..I thank the stars that we have a decent man in the job.
I hope you get to eat your words when we go leaps and bounds next year..with Ratts....as a united team that is learning and growing together.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

We'll only get nearer to even contemplating top 4 if the backwards culture of our football club can begin to change. We'll only get nearer to even contemplating top 4 if we keep sourcing the 'best' in every area that counts, especially coaching staff and development staff.

There's a reason a guy like Kade Simpson stands out amongst the other 21 players every week, and that's because he cares. So often our guys look like they don't understand the absolute necessity to 'gut run' both ways, to work for each other, to have an absolutely uncompromising attitude to every single contest. There was a period on Fri night throughout the entire 2nd and 3rd terms when we did not win one one-one contest. That comes down to desire and wanting to better themselves as footballers. It is the responsibility of the coaching staff to set this standard every single week, every single contest and to me, that has been the most disappointing part about our season to date. We simply choose when to go and when not to, we rely on a couple of players to get us going and then the rest of the team just climbs aboard for the ride.

There's still time to make some cosmetic changes to this attitude before Sunday, but the real worry is that this culture of a laissez-faire approach to getting the best out of ourselves is ingrained in the entire football club- from the coaches, to the players, even to the communications staff.