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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:39 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
Hendo very sore as well...don't know whether or not he'll play yet. Team hasn't been selected... :wink:

I thought the MC convene on Wednesday afternoons/evenings?

Walker has some niggles too, but honestly, Joseph and Henderson should be rested on account of that first. Dropping Yarran just costs us footskills, even if we bring in Houlihan.

There's no logic to the changes, and really doesn't send anything like the message Ratten was talking about. Bower, Joseph, Gibbs, Carrazzo, Johnson and the like were the ones dodging the contest or not concentrating.

Yarran had 6 contested possessions as did Walker. Their tackle count was 7 (4 effective) and 6 (5 effective) respectively. Dropping them makes no sense.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:42 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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jimmae wrote:
I thought the MC convene on Wednesday afternoons/evenings?


They do...but you never know how the boys are going to pull up after a day and a half off... :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:15 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Fair enough, and it concerns me that our list management is to the stage where we have to rely on such defensive measures also.

Having said that, ask yourself two questions:

1) If you had to choose between one option, out of the last 6 games, have Essendon* beat us or have we lost? Barring the last half of last year's flogging, I would say we've lost them all. We haven't paid the proper respect to certain players and underestimated their club's hatred of us, and ensuing capacity to lift for games against us despite being down in form (see: Lloyd about a dozen times in the last decade).

2) Who is a genuine matchwinner out of the 32 odd blokes on our list, that is likely to win us the game? I would even go as far to say that Judd is not a matchwinner, but rather a bloke who will keep us competitive rather than a blowout more often than not, and without support, that call is becoming less and less true. I would say Eddie Betts, Waite if he plays forward and maybe, Marc Murphy, which is becoming less and less likely over the past few weeks with the form he's been in. We're not going to win a shoot out against this mob. Going back to when we used to regularly beat this mob in the early part of the last decade, it would be put down to Fev kicking a bag more often than not. Could even go as far to say that if there is more than 30 goals kicked on the night, they win. If there is less, we do.

I'd drop Ellard and Johnson moreso for team balance and general lack of regard for form shown in junk time. Not quick enough, and don't offer enough versatility. Ellard was going to be dropped for Armfield anyway, Johnson had his moments, both good and bad. I'd drop Gibbs also if Judd were fit and Murph was in relatively decent form, but truth is, we can't afford to at this point.


1) I understand what you're saying, but in a team game I don't know how you'd distinguish between the two. I think that to some degree you play as well as your opponent lets you. Even with something seemingly obvious such as bad turnovers it can be argued that it was referred pressure from the opposition that caused the player to make the error.
An alternative theory to not respecting their better players enough is paying them too much respect, almost being somewhat in awe of them. It's conceivable that a player becomes so concerned about what his opponent might do that his own game is diminished. That's what I was thinking may be creeping in at Carlton and why I was wondering if perhaps it wouldn't be better just to "go for it" ourselves and not focus quite so much on stopping x, y, and z.

2) Another of my pet theories at the moment, (and lets face it we're all trying to come up with reasons why we're going so badly), is that perhaps we've got too many wannabe match winners. Even Judd, who does have the talent, seems at times to be trying to be inspirational rather than just doing the simple team thing. I think we've got enough blokes who want to make the big run down the ground or take a speccy*, but maybe not enough who are prepared to take up a blocking position so that a team-mate can take an easy grab.

* And WFT was Eddie trying to do on that wing? All he needed to do was to prop and put his hip into his opponent and he would've had an easy chest mark. Trying too hard to be a hero.

I'll just agree to disagree with Ellard and Johnson. I believe that if we put the time into these blokes, and let them play the roles they're good at, we'll be rewarded.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
jimmae wrote:
I thought the MC convene on Wednesday afternoons/evenings?


They do...but you never know how the boys are going to pull up after a day and a half off... :wink:

Ahhh. I think?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:46 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Would be disappointed if Ellard gets the chop. Let him continue to grow into the midfield role I reckon.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:57 pm 
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John Nicholls

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sjabc wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
kernafides wrote:
People need to let go of the "Bring Wiggo in" comments. He has not played a game of football in about 5 weeks


Does anyone know what is wrong with him, he isn't listed as injured.


They've locked him in a dark room, feeding him only raw meat, and are priming him for the finals......


I see, Ratten has a cunning plan... :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:02 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Them....

In Winderlich

Out Gumby

Source: AFL Live teams on the HUN website.

Still waiting to see Carltons team......

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:07 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Fisher stranded on 99.......


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:08 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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In: Armfield, Davies, Hadley, Robinson

Out: Fisher, Johnson, Walker, Yarran


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:09 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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out - walker, yaz, fish, johnson
in - davies, robbo, army, hads

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:10 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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In - Hardness

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:10 pm 
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Laurie Kerr
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Congrats to Marcus Davies. Yarran injury?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:11 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Sammy Edmund says 4 changes at Carlton - OUT - fisher, johnson, walker, yarran (inj), IN - armfield, marcus davies, hadley, robinson (Source LIVE Teams HUN)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:11 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Congratulations Marcus Davies!

Show us what you've got young fella!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:12 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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That is a massive punch in the face to Thornton, and an absolute mockery of Ratten's words if he seriously thinks Hadley is genuinely tough in the clinches.

Out: foot skills, aerial ability and flair
In: G&D, run

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:12 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: Canberra
Essendon*
B: Heath Hocking, Dustin Fletcher, Courtenay Dempsey
HB: Mark McVeigh, Michael Hurley, Cale Hooker
C: David Zaharakis, Jobe Watson, Brent Stanton
HF: Kyle Hardingham, Jay Neagle, Travis Colyer
F: Angus Monfries, David Hille, Alwyn Davey
Foll: Patrick Ryder, Bachar Houli, Ben Howlett
I/C: Kyle Reimers, Sam Lonergan, Jason Winderlich, Brent Prismall
Emg: Nathan Lovett-Murray, David Myers, Jake Carlisle
In: Winderlich
Out: Scott Gumbleton (ribs)


Carlton
B: Jordan Russell, Michael Jamison, Aaron Joseph
HB: Dennis Armfield, Paul Bower, Shaun Grigg
C: Heath Scotland, Chris Judd, Bryce Gibbs
HF: Kade Simpson, Lachie Henderson, Marc Murphy
F: Shaun Hampson, Jarrad Waite, Eddie Betts
Foll: Robert Warnock, Andrew Carrazzo, David Ellard
I/C: Marcus Davies, Jeff Garlett, Richard Hadley, Mitch Robinson
Emg: Joe Anderson, Mark Austin, Setanta O'hAilpin
In: Hadley, Armfield, Davies, Robinson
Out: Brad Fisher, Andrew Walker, Chris Johnson, Chris Yarran (ankle)
New: Marcus Davies (Tasmania U18)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:15 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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jimmae wrote:
That is a massive punch in the face to Thornton, and an absolute mockery of Ratten's words if he seriously thinks Hadley is genuinely tough in the clinches.

Out: foot skills, aerial ability and flair
In: G&D, run


There is a post in the BF rumor thread about why Thornton has not played in weeks. Pure speculation of course.


Last edited by missnaut on Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:16 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Judd Gibbs and simo play better when Hadley is in
lost a bit of speed gained a bit of grunt with Hads and robbo
for a team struggling to kick goals we have lost two forwards and haven't replaced them

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:20 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Carrazzo ..... Surprise :screwy:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:20 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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missnaut wrote:
jimmae wrote:
That is a massive punch in the face to Thornton, and an absolute mockery of Ratten's words if he seriously thinks Hadley is genuinely tough in the clinches.

Out: foot skills, aerial ability and flair
In: G&D, run


There is a post in the BF rumor thread about why Thornton has not played in weeks. Pure speculation of course.

No one is that childish about a professional work place. When you have blokes physically stress themselves to the extreme, tempers will flare. If true, it'd only be a contributing factor.

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