We are a rabble.
No doubt.

The players look disinterested, don't seem to know how or when to set up. Our lack of urgency & intensity compounds this b/c our strategies are not only thin but we are trying to execute them under pressure.
It seems like our players are trying to think about what they should do and where they should run to rather than just playing and incorporating their strategies naturally.
It is like an actor trying to perform before they've properly learned their lines. Learning the lines is the easy part - they then have to ACT, with the lines as second nature.
I reckon Ratts has made it too complicated and stats oriented. And that's how we are playing.

That's not to let the players off the hook. My FIRST point of call is to accuse the players of softness on every level: physicality, tackling, getting to the ball first, repeated leads, chasing, follow up, 2nd/3rd/4th/5th efforts, persistence (watch reiwoldt, brown, selwood, lenny hayes, ablett; think of nigel lappin, voss, cousins, buckley, paul kelly, ). Even Judd does not escape - yes, he is stuffed from trying to carry the team but his tackles also don't stick, he also chases half-heartedly. But, after thinking about it, I have to trace it back to the coach:

Either, he is unable to communicate or the contents of his comms are off the boil. Either way, he holds the key.
(Coming back to the players for a sec, I can't imagine Selwood losing his intensity no matter what else was happening with the coach/team/strategy... Judd also has that attitude.)

HOWEVER, I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE BEEN THROWN BACK 3-4YRS. PART OF THE FRUSTRATION IS KNOWING THAT WE ARE CAPABLE OF MUCH MORE. Geelong & StK were supposed to reach their pinnacles 2-3yrs before they finally made it (Saints still haven't nailed it but have been playing consistently good footy for a couple years now...).

The solution lies is finding a way to get inside these guys heads, get rid of those not capable of it, and build a more robust style of play. I have seen Murphy play like a man possessed and same with Gibbs (he played like that in the SANFL). These guys can go that way with the right incentive.

Walker played his best games for us this year at CHB. Play him there. Joseph is best played as a tagger. Carrazzo is better as defensive forward, as is Houlihan. This suits the modern game: we need a couple of defensive forwards and a couple of attacking defenders to complement the traditional roles.
I reckon we'll make a huge play for Pavlich. However, it won't work unless the other stuff if fixed too.

Pav - what will he cost?

Judd - lots of picks
Warnock - 2 good picks
Maclean - pick 11
Johnson - not sure (second rounder?)
Pavlich - what the @#$%&! will he cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

here's a thought

Carlton grow some balls and fix the mess with effort not with money!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

You would think the last 8 weeks have shown how poor our depth is, yet we would have to further reduce our ability to build any depth to get the Pav.

There is nothing wrong with adding more talented players to your list - I'd rather us underestimate the talent on our list and continue to draft youth instead of overestimating our ability like Brisbane did over the pre season.

Hopefully our club learns from mistakes it has made in the past.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Trade Gibbs for Pav, plus a 2nd round draft pick (hopefully we can get a tough nut mid who can kick), deal done.

The Sticks/Ross Gibbs factor has been a big factor in keeping Bryce happy @ CFC, if Sticks is no longer Prez (probably via an ugly process), just watch how the dynamics will change. Sorry, Gibbsy ain't a true blue for mine, could be best for all.

This club has truly lost the plot if it thinks getting Pavlich to the club will solve our leadership issues/on field fortunes.

Not only would we be compromising our depth by trading away picks/players, we'd be trading for a player who will be turning 30 next year and has already started to have issues with his body, missing 4 games last year with a calf (old player injury) and struggling in the second half of this year because the workload is too much.

Sounds familiar?

You would have thought this club would have learnt not to go for a quick fix and trade for someone who is already on the decline - Pavlich is not the player he was three years ago.

You would have thought the club would do the hard work required to fix the issues currently affecting the team (poor coaching, poor leadership, lack of depth) instead of just thinking throwing cash around will solve everything.

Is this club still stuck in the latter part of the 20th century?

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

I don't buy for a minute that we'd be into Pav. It's just incomprehensible.

Unfortunately we are into him; he's been a guest of the club a couple of times this year.

Hopefully his growing business interests in Perth and the Dockers improvement keep him there.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Hard to believe we are only half a game behind the hawks who are touted a chance this year

Don't think anyone has really gone backwards
just don't think there has been much improvement

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

So let me get this straight... you want to trade a 21 year old elite talent having an ordinary year but with his best football still a couple of years away for a 29 year old player whose best football is well behind him and will take up massive cap space + pick 40 something in the most compromised draft of all time....

good plan.... maybe we could throw in Yarran just to make sure the deal is fair on freo...

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Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

Those issues alone makes our interest incomprehensible.

agreed

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Care to define "elite", Cranium?

Johnson was a PSD pick. Hadley was a 4th rounder.

Pav won't cost anywhere near as much as Judd as he's 28 going on 29. Availability is an issue, and we would probably give up our first two picks.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I know, I was thinking that earlier. But then they have had to make up a lot of ground after losing 5 from 6 first up. They have some interesting games coming up too - Swans in Sydney, Freo in Tassie and Melbourne and Collingwood here.

I agree also that I don't think we have gone backwards, just stagnated.

People have short memories (the ones complaining) - to your above list I'd also add the following players that have clearly improved on last year (and that have played a few games)
houlihan, yarran, jacobs and henderson

The difference between this year and last year is that henderson is a massive step down from fev (goal scoring wise) and a couple of our mids are way down (murphy, gibbs, and arguably judd - scotland is tracking about same as last year). Preseason most observers didnt have the blues in the 8 yet most people have forgotten that already.

Regardless of whether we make the 8 or not, we HAVE improved as a team. The post-fev transition was always going to take at least a couple of seasons of adjustment+finding a replacement forward. Pre-season we had 4 real tall forward options
Henderson has shown signs but he is clearly not physically ready yet to impose himself.
Setanta was good early but has faded badly since about midseason.
Fisher showed promise but unfortunately for the team did an ACL just prior to the season proper. Given how poor the team played against the pies he deserves at least a couple of games to show what he can do in our new forward structure.
Waite has shown signs but has struggled for rythm/regular game time (post-knee form+multiple suspensions)

Moving forward into 2011 Henderson WILL improve. As will waite (1 yr post knee). With an improved forward structure we will be a lot stronger as a team (ie being able to kick goals in tough games/periods/quarters as opposed to not being able to score at all).

I'd also be inclined to keep one of fisher or setanta next season as insurance for the forward line.

Oh, yes!

Here we go on the circular meat-train again. What is happening to our list reminds me of one of those pitch drop experiments, only sped up, with the guts of the thing slowly caving downward; or at best, a lava lamp, the shape might change but nothing actually improves.

It's silly, we never actually 'rebuilt' so much as restructured as if the idea of winning premierships was some kind of a case of "same old...same old". You don't achieve success by attempting to be competitive or maintaining a semblance of structure or order, you do it by being better than your opponents at as many facets of the game as possible. You don't baulk every time you see something go wrong and puff out your chest every time you think you have it cleared up.

I know it's a bit of a cliché by now but Carlton are a hugely reactive club when they need to be proactive. It's always 'project for the off-season' type mentality when one issue is dealt with in an expensive and almost rudimentary fashion and the rest is left to a kind of 'softly, softly' version of chance.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I don't want us to get Pav, I'm simply saying that he's a little more within reach than people might suspect.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I'm one of the "most people" Jim. Tell me what you know. I'm sure it won't upset any possible deal or oherwise.

Go on, let us know what you know. The detail.

Post the video.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

Im in the no Pav camp. It must be Sticks influence to try and go for these quick fix solutions.

I fear as long as he is president, we are stuck in the dark ages.

Off the top of my head, I've counted 14 top 20 picks on our list. If we cant develop our own players to become genuine top liners, we may as well give it away.
Pavlich is a champion but surely we have to stand on our own feet and forget the quick fix at some stage.
Buying in "guns" let's the coaches off the hook IMO. They're paid a lot of money to develop the players. It's about time they earnt it.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.