And we will! We will get pummelled this week, mark it down.

We have nothing down at Carlton - just a heartless, spineless group of men!!!

There will be no response from this group because they all have a soft core. Just insipid.

I concur with the OP, I have gone past being furious and livid and I dont care ATM. Didn't go yesterday, or last week. We were not supposed to be seeing what this team are putting out at this stage of their footballing cycle. They have gone backwards. It is unnaccepetable. I wont bang on about coaches positions and the like but both the performances and the talk coming out of Carlton have been abysmal and needs to change. A lot needs to change before they'll spark passion from me again...

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C'mon Blueboys!

Yeah sure, whatever.

Gibbs will be 22 next year
Murphy will be 24 next year
Walker will be 25 next year
Russell will be 25 next year
Simpson will be 27 next year
Grigg will be 23 next year
Bower will be 23
Betts will be 24.

Collingwood
==============
Obrien will be 24
Pendelbury will be 23
Thomas will be 24
Beams will be 21
Reid will be 22
Wellingham will be 23
Cloke will be 24
Swan will be 27


I am sick of these @#$%&! excuses.

I don't suppose you're actually suggesting those lists of names in their entirety could be considered equal in terms of team structure, are you?

Walker and Grigg are the only peripheral names you mention, while the list of Pies has Reid, Beams, Wellingham & Thomas. Easy to coast along and look good when you only have to do odds and ends for your team.

Focus on the fact that our 22 as a whole doesn't perform like Collingwood's 22 as a whole. The names you've mentioned have done pretty well over the journey save for Betts (this season) and Walker.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

What are you on about?

Ben Reid is a joke and a liability.

If Maxwell isn't there to give him a chop out he's like every other defender when the ball is delivered quickly, susceptible to pressure and prone to mistakes.

_________________
"In fairness it did seem in the early days of the draft teams would just pick a name totally at random out of a hat. I'm pretty sure we picked James Cook at #2 one year. The mediocre forward, not the explorer" - Me, 12/9/2011

Carlton 2012: Lets remind them why they once feared the Dark.

I've been a member since the mid 90's, I even endured the spoon years and will continue to financially support the club next year and beyond regardless. A new year brings new hope I suppose.

But for this home and away season, I was done after the Sydney game.

That was our 10th home game and I refuse to pay for away games, to watch this shit. Players don't care nor will I.

People can say whatever they want. I work 6 days most weeks and have to rearrange my schedule to watch the blueboys.


I'll wait for a possible finals appearance - haven't seen one since Richmond 2001.

_________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

I suggest you get the 17 game membership, Hornet. It's really quite cost effective.

_________________
"In fairness it did seem in the early days of the draft teams would just pick a name totally at random out of a hat. I'm pretty sure we picked James Cook at #2 one year. The mediocre forward, not the explorer" - Me, 12/9/2011

Carlton 2012: Lets remind them why they once feared the Dark.

I'm also 32. I lived in Melbourne till i was 11 (member, every game) and then we moved to Canberra. I get down for one or two games a year but as I still play I don't get many weekends available. I watch almost every game on TV in one way or another.

I said it on this forum last year and earlier this year - we are developing and i understand that we will lose games. I don't even care that we lose games as this stage. We are developing. What i care about is that the 'young blokes' don't give a shit. Losing should hurt for these 'professionals'. But it doesn't. because they dish up the same gutless shit week after week. I am really interested to see if anyone comes out firing next week or they just cash their pay check as per usual and go through the motions- after all -' we are professional footballers now'.

Hopefully they give wiggo a run - at least he shows some heart and pride in the jumper.

_________________
The only way for some people to understand is for them to be on the receiving end

Left wing moralists
In self serving denial
They shit me no end

That our list of names there has a little more quality on paper than the list you've made for Collingwood.

Not a decent comparison at all, and highlights that we expect a lot more out of our younger players.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Huh?

Again Danny nicely balanced post...too balanced for these forums my friend.... I actually admire the filth...(hate them with a passion) and am down in the dumps for a day after we lose to those low lifes BUT I admire the way they give their supporters value for money...they are rarely thrashed workmanlike (even though they will fall over when it matters most) but they hang in there and always give themselves a chance to win....this is a reflection on both the administration and the football department...now this hasn't just happened as you elude to...they have been consistent for years since Malthouse took over...yes we may have a hole or two in our list but that should not prevent us from being able to play to an organised structure and high level of commitment...win lose or draw..our greatest deficiencies are off field...

_________________
"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

We absolutely thumped them last year. Tore 'em to bits.

They have improved [as they should] and we have gone down a slippery slope with no end in sight. Why why why???

FYI- they had 8-10 players out last time we beat them, take that win with a grain of salt.

yes...it takes time..and we aren't there in all areas, and we have some on and off field deficiencies...but...
we have more than half, or three quarters of our seniors that are experienced enough to go hard at it, and be consistent don't we?
There was a graphic on one of the footy shows today that showed we have at least 8 players right inside the peak performance window..so ..when you say it will take a long, long, time...that just doesn't seem right.
We have great players..or potentially great players with enough games played to perform, and help lift the team right now.
i'm going to disagree about Pavlich and say, he might be a catalyst to help bring the players that should be excelling to do so.
He wouldn't be a quick fix, he would be an initiator, a leader, and an inspirer in a team that appears to have lost it's way.
yes..we must get some grunt...as well as hopefully Mc.Lean coming good, and Robbo improving..and yes, we do still need more KPPs
but......the players are under performing.
with what we have, we should be within the next year or two, building toward a great new time. To say 4 or 5 years, with the list we have, is completely disheartening.
I hope that analysis is wrong. I really bloody do.
I'm gonna choose to look at us like Seabiscuit.
An amazing horsie, that would not perform.
They worked him, and worked him through his injuries, and his slump, and his neurosis till he got up, and became a legend.
That's us..we are the Biscuit...we just broke our leg, but before you know it...we'll be winning beyond anyone's expectations.

_________________
That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

Not that its probably going to make you feel better but i was pretty dissapointed too. I thought it was a home game and rocked up a 2:10 to my normal reserved seat to find collingwood supporters sitting in my reserved seat and my mates missing. Little did i realise it was an AWAY game and that my reserved seat actually belonged to a collingwood prick. I was pretty embarressed after argueing with him for a minute or two about it being my seat before realising it wasn't my seat and it was an away game... but taht was no-where near as embaressing as how i felt at the end of teh game after watching our performance.

I can handle losing but i can't handle us just lieing down so easily. i sat with these collingwood supporters for the rest of the game and endured continuous crap but did so happily because i love the navy blues. All i was just hoping to see was that the players love the jumper as much as i do.

But it hasn`t taken time for Collingwood to build a list. They came 15th in 2000, effectively the same position we were in after 2002 when you consider their turnover of players. They contested consecutive GF`s 2 years later. They have been regular finalists only really dropping down/tanking in 05 to take Thomas and Pendlebury.
We can only dream of that sort of success.

Think back to that era though, the sort of teams that were successful. Think of the bottom 10 or 12 names of their best 22, and ask yourself how they would have faired in today's game. It's gone up a level; some say it's gone up several levels.

Synbad talked about the speed of the game and players, but I argue the standard has gone up more significantly in endurance, repeat efforts and ability to execute. Not many places to hide any more.

My point? Collingwood had the foot soldiers (and the odd talent in Buckley & Clement) to get by in that era and had moderate success. While that was going on, a small number of the youngsters running around then have developed along with the game. I still argue that the next phase of Collingwood's list is definitely downward unless they pull off some very astute trades (which they have @#$%&! all chance of doing considering their long history of being wankers about such matters), and that's why you've seen the acquisition of Ball & Jolly, and why Malthouse isn't throwing up a stink about his succession contract.

I also feel that Collingwood's system of play doesn't lend itself to long-term development, which is why you have guys like a first round pick in Thomas only running around as a borderline second stringer. For every Didak & Davis, there's a list four times as long of Collingwood failures in the last 7 years.

You can further note this (and completely dispel the myth of top 4 clubs having vastly superior squad depth) by quickly checking how many players they've used this season: 33, which is equal third along with Hawthorn & Geelong (what a surprise). The lowest in the league is 32, shared by St Kilda & the Bulldogs (again, shock; horror). The highest in the league is 39, so that shows you it only takes 3 or 4 injuries to drop you back into the pack.

Clubs that don't have to pluck out kids for a spark early in their careers are generally performing better. Seems simple enough when you say it that way. Given we've only blooded Lucas this year, you can say we're very very close.

Anyway, IMO, this and the following two seasons are Collingwood's best chance for this entire decade.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Anyway, IMO, this and the following two seasons are Collingwood's best chance for this entire decade

Good reason to hope Geelong's list stays healthy.

One thing Collingwood talk about very favourably is how newcomers into their team are expected to pull their weight straight away. And it seems that they generally do. Now, I'm drawing a bit of a long bow here linking the two but it concerns me when we get a player like Ellard and bring him into the team as tagger. I can see logic in it to help him learn "where to go", but this kid has got a lot of BOG's in the 2's being a centre ball getter, not a tagger. I would've much preferred him to be told to go and do for Carlton what he's been doing well for the Ants. Show the new kid a bit of faith. But we seem to take the attitude that that sort of role is too much for a newbie and I question this approach. And Ellard's not the only one this has happened to.

Oh, and Dannyboy. Why do you doublespace everything and put so few words on so many lines? I presume you have a reason, bu it makes it hard to read IMO.

We did let him do his thing also Kev; he had a team high 4 first possessions.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.