isn't an aspect of being gutless and passing the buck, not putting your head over the ball, not shepearding, not running and creating options to give the ball carrier and option?

sounds like you're both on the same page really. not running for a team mate is gutless IMO.

they are all playing for them selves.

seriously hope robbo and wiggo are in simply to be examples of the levels of intensity required - not matter how limited there games.

yeah Riley or Bailey would do.

We must me the only side currently who refuse to run and support each other.
Every other team give 100% and win/lose or draw can atleast look each other in eyes at the end.

Oh hai.

We were thereabouts in the first, and we stopped working for the ball in the second. Definitely dropped our heads when we were given that bogus free against Bower for holding the ball.

Second half, we only responded for mere moments in the third, and the Pies took the foot off the gas in the last. That was really disheartening to see, and if Ratten or the players look to that as a positive they are deluded.

When you see our blokes stop working as a unit defensively, one closing the ball carrier, the rest minding the next options; our blokes not hitting the knock-ons when they have to; kicking without looking; running off without looking; not quickly getting back to position on a mark/kick-in to take advantage of the run in play, that's when you know we're struggling.

When none of that is happening, it's like someone's flicked on a switch. We needed more of what we produced in that second half last week and first quarter this week, less of the rest of the time where we expect it to happen with no effort on our part.

One thing Ratten is clearly not getting across in this 'momentum' style of play is that you need to take advantage of what's given to you: if you can move it on quickly, move it on quickly; if you need to be more cautious, do so, but for the love of God be quick to get a view of the field of play as your opportunities dry up while you're looking the other way or thinking twice.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

that is pretty interesting but i'd rather ratts blame the players than his hea din the sand comments of recent weeks. Even if ratts is the problem, atleats he is acknowledging that something is not right.

If Essendon* pull our pants down I will be @#$%&! shattered.

lose to richmond and Ratts wont see the season out. and nor should he.

Absolutely man - that's why I was making it clear I wasn't taking a swipe at him but using what he was saying.

The squibbing of contested footy was alarming. We are @#$%&! lazy soft-cocks.

In an post above, Ellard is being bagged. WTFF?

I am also alarmed Ratten is blaming the players entirely. Imagine if your manager, allegedly respected, announced that none of you worked hard enough - you are embarrassing? Not just that, but this manager had the role where he had to design all the systems within set criteria and these also had an adverse effect on the overall performance - he was an integral cog in the wheel, he made decisions. That would create disharmony immediately and spiral out of control. Fair enough saying "we," but "they?" He's making his play that's for sure.

Things are heating up. I only hope he has the recipe right for what we are starting to smell.

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--------------------------------------------------------"The only one that could ever love me..."

You are kidding, surely?

Pies have an average list and we have a very good list??????

Don't ability to kick, discipline, courage and smarts count as part of a footballers armoury?

I'm sorry but if you believe we have a better list than Collingwood I reckon you have no idea.

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"You can't polish a James Hird"

The Age newspaper stated -

"Carlton stay in the game for all of 10 minutes - and thereafter the Pies take over. "


I think that is a bit harsh, sure we lost the games against Sydney and North Melbourne by quarter time, but give the courageous Blues
their dues. They were in the game until well into the 2nd quarter. ..an amazing achievement. That is a vast difference to previous weeks.

The most concerning thing for me is that Ratten is only now embarrassed by the performance.

Did he not see every game since the Hawthorn debacle?

What unfolded in that game has set the abysmal standard. He should have been embarrassed then and done something about it.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

I'm sure he's been aware of the issues since the Hawks game but has perhaps now decided/resorted to use the media as some type of attempted stimulation to the players.

Exactly Rexy.

Not sure why people on here hang on to what any coach says in the media.

And that's not concerning to you?

Blind freddy could see what unfolded against the Hawks was like opening a deep old wound.

Why didn't he come out then and label that as embarrassing and unacceptable? Why protect these gumps?

What he has done is allow mediocrity to creep in.

I don't stand this protect the players bullshit. If they are no good, they deserve to cop it from the coach IN PUBLIC.

They were soft against Hawthorn and have been ever since. Ratten has not done anything about it and now 5 or 6 weeks later we are worse for it.

Name and shame baby. Pay them like men. Treat them like men. Maybe they'll respect the club like men.

I deserve more as a supporter from these cowering pricks - and that includes everyone from the committee, etc down.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

I actually thinks it's a real sign of desperation and perhaps an admission that he can't get his message through behind the scenes. Ratts is in big trouble IMO.

I'm not sure about the modern era merit or otherwise of tailoring messages in public different to what you deliver in private. I think football clubs that want to bee seen as professional, should be professional enough to cop honest, brutal assessment from public utterances. Doing otherwise is old media.

What are they protecting? is it for fear of upsetting a couple of fragile egos? If so that's pathetic.

Put a game plan in place and believe in it. And if the players don't respond to it let them and the supporters know.

Did you hear Thompson say before the Swans game that if Mark Blake doesn't want to play to Geelong's plan then he can go back to the twos until he learns to.

I didn't interpret that as a tailored message to soften the blow.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

I think he is in trouble too. Even if its just perception that he cant coach its a big issue. That could be enough to put pressure on those in charge to remove him. Ratts every move now will be watched and seen in a negative way. No doubt about it.

Lets hope those above see a problem with the players also. A lot of them have seen off a number of assistants and a senior coach already. If they have their way with another then surely something serious has to be done with the list.

I don’t think Ratts playing hard ball with the players via the media is that desperate a move. Putting the spotlight on the players not going in is the aim. The world will be watching now to see who he is talking about.
He would have been on about it for months with the players one on one. The players obviously don’t believe they have a problem with it and that Ratts is making it all up. Now Ratts has asked the rest of the world to voice their opinions in a bid to get the message to sink in.

The fact they think Ratts is making it up is a different issue all together.

Using the media is a common ploy by other clubs BUT NOT CARLTON.

Carlton is an abnormally inward AFL club that goes out of it's way to keep as much 'stuff' inside the club as they can.
That's why I find this approach desperate.

I've got a feeling that many from all levels at the club might be finding it a bit difficult at the moment dealing with some truths that Leading Teams might have exposed.
Tough times.

Yeah you are right. I guess Ratts is starting to think he will lose his job if these clowns dont go in. With teams throwing spare men back Ratts uses our extras around the packs which should have us win more clearances. Unfortunatley it hasn’t been of late mainly because players are just reaching in and not really going in hard with the mindset of winning the ball. Ratts is desperate to get the message through and as you say Rexy is going to desperate messures.

The take I got from the press conference was that he has well and truly had a gutful of the same things that everyone here is complaining about.

It seems like he has stuck his neck out and continued to show faith in the players as he is trying to build a nucleus that can take us to the next level, it appears that he has finally run out of paitence with them and is now going to apply the heat.

It is so easy for everyone here to hang shit on the coach, but as it has been stated by many people in this forum " we don't have the depth" so it follows that as we are in the position of fighting for a spot in the final 8, he has been limited in options for change.

Again it is easy to say "Drop this one drop that one etc" but the fact remains when you are going to replace player A with player B one of the first questions that needs to be asked is, will player B have better value at his best than player A at his worst, if the answer is no, then you can't logically make that change.

I hear people banging on about play Casaboult, Play Thouey, etc.

There is no point playing these kids until they are ready and capable of making a meaningful contribution to the team, if they do play and get smacked then we get the grandstand geniuses saying that they are hacks and shouldn't have been recruited, also by playing these kids before they are ready we stand a very good chance of setting back their development, either way the coach cops it up the clacker.

I am all for dropping non performing lazy soft Prima donnas, but we have to have something to replace them with.
If we drop gibbs and murphy next week it is good for disipline but if we get smacked you lot will be unhappy if we fall out of the 8, we can't have it both ways, our list is fragile and thin, a couple of injuries have killed whatever depth we have.
Pick your outs for next week and give us the in's that actually can get the job done and give solid reasons other than what your personal bias is.

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We are the maybe blues

It wasn't only the Hawks game. It was the North game, the Swans game, the Dogs game and if you really want go further back it was the Essendon* game earlier in the season.

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"IF YOU FAIL TO PREPARE, YOU'RE PREPARED TO FAIL" - Mark Spitz

The title here says 'Post Match Venting' so here goes....

I am going to try and stay as composed as possible because simply ranting and raving about how pathetic we were wont solve anything. Yes we were given a bath by the Pies and to be honest we have just not been anywhere near good enough for the last 6 weeks.

What has gone wrong? Not sure anything in particular has. I think 2010 was always going to be a struggle for us. Hate to bring it up again but fact is that without Fev we were always going to struggle. The 'boof head' had to go but without a suitable replacement we simply were not going to be competitive enough.

Sure we wanted to prove to the doubters that we could kick a winning score without Fev and guys like Setanta and Betts stepped up early - but they were never going to be able to keep it up for too long. Hendo will be ok but at 20 years of age he is still maturing. Hammer is learning the game, Yaz and Garlett need time (but they are not key forwards) and Fish and Wiggins are both GONE!

Like I said earlier I'm not upset to see the Fev go. What I am upset about is that a suitable replacement was not found. Nor have we really attempted to find an 'apprentice' to Fev over the last 3 or 4 years. Not good enough...

Murphy and Gibbs, both no. 1's and both can play good footy. But they just seem off at the moment. Not hard enough at the ball and most importantly not playing like 'leaders' of the club. That's the big difference. They are entitled to play a bad one every so often and have their colors lowered, but as leaders of our club what they are expected to do is fly the flag!! Too often they dont, they drop their heads and play like 'it's just too hard'! Not good enough...

Ratts and the assistants have been allowed to go for too long with just the one game plan. They are too re-active rather than pro-active. After Plan A there doesnt seem to be much more. After the Pagan debacle I understand we felt the need to replace him with 'one of our own' but it simply has not worked. Whether Ratts sees out 2010 or 2011 I dont know - but what i do know is that if we are fair dinkum then the buck stops with Ratts. If he is good enough to turn it around then show us what you got Brett! If not.....time to go. Not good enough...

No wonder Ratts says he was 'embarrased' by our efforts. We were super SOFT. Ratts may not be the best coach going around but as a player he was hard and uncompromising. His side is anything but. They were exposed as a super soft side yesterday and it was so obvious that other teams will expose it also.

Is our list as bad as what it showed yesterday? Don't think so. It's unfortunate but to me the only conclusion I come up with is that Ratts has lost the playing group. Whether he is up to coaching at senior level or not is not the question. Mark Williams can coach but Port moved him on because he had lost the players. Ratts has lost the players. They are not playing for him, they are not responding to his tactics and they dont seem to agree with his game plan.

It's shame it has come to this but its now obvious to me that time for change has come. Our list is better than what it showed.

Sorry Ratts - but your time is up.

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HENDERSONALENKO......YOU BEAUTY!!!!!