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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:46 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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We could debate about what's wrong at Carlton until we're blue in the fact (pun not intended). Unless we're inside we don't know what exactly is wrong but what we do know is that something IS wrong with our footy department and changes need to be made at seasons end.

Ratten has to go but he's not the only one.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:56 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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It's just as much a crisis situation as I thought would occur.

However I (and probably many others) was well and truly fooled by the 'mirage' of the Geelong and St Kilda wins..

After the heights of this current crisis - The new young coach will seem to be an underwhelming choice.

His skills will not readily apparent to most but they will be studiously applied in the areas of our greatest deficienciies.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:01 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:02 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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ThePsychologist wrote:
Based on our recruiting previously we are probably making a big money offer to Mitch Thorpe.

I thought the problem was Carlton playing our recruits out of position?

Warnock played well.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:04 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
Effes wrote:
Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
Ratten needs help...


Doc do you think the club will actually do anything about the coaching/assistant coaching situation?

Do they recognise that there is a problem/issue there?


The powers that be recognise that the message isn't getting through. Personally I think Ratts is very good coach - but not all the players are responding to their roles and that of life as an AFL footballer. There's half a dozen who can't be coached (in one ear and out the other) or are getting information overload. That's probably harsh - but they're struggling.

There's been some confronting moments, primarily addressed through Leading Teams that hasn't gone over well with some of the coaches and some of the players. Leadership is a big problem. It doesn't come from too many areas and is limited across the board. There's been a push of late to get a senior coach in to help Ratten...so assistants are on edge. A real lack of 25-30 year old age bracket who have leadership qualities. Really need a few more to grow up. Expect a big play for a senior player with oodles of leadership qualities in the off-season. Wheels already in motion. As much as Ratts needs help - Judd needs more help.


Typical response. Let's get a big name player to sort out our problems. We have Judd and a truckload of high draft picks. Wake up to yourself. We need a strong, disciplined, fair and tactically astute coach. We aint got that now.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:09 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:58 pm
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I'm having a de javu (minus the accents) feeling. Am I in the right thread - should I be in the words that dumb people use / dumb words that people use thread? I had this feeling of excitement when it was pretty clear that Pagan had to go and it would be onwards and upwards. Now I'm de javu but not in a good way. I'm feeling a bit faithless ... but not in a good way.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:11 pm 
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Robert Walls

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GWS wrote:
Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
yes


And how many years of quality football does he have left?

If we recruit Pavlich and it costs us anything other than cash we're screwed.



Good point. The Doc rebutts the argument of those he doesn't agree with by trotting out lines like, "you have no idea of professional sport" Professional sport success is based around buiding a champion team, not the other way around.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:28 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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99prelim wrote:
Good point. The Doc rebutts the argument of those he doesn't agree with by trotting out lines like, "you have no idea of professional sport" Professional sport success is based around buiding a champion team, not the other way around.


Listen ...i wrote that based on Juddernaut stating that the 'players want Ratten to be sacked and that's why they're playing like that'...that's just a dumb thing to say...but you're just as clueless, so I don't expect you to understand.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:31 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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99prelim wrote:
GWS wrote:
Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
yes


And how many years of quality football does he have left?

If we recruit Pavlich and it costs us anything other than cash we're screwed.



Good point. The Doc rebutts the argument of those he doesn't agree with by trotting out lines like, "you have no idea of professional sport" Professional sport success is based around buiding a champion team, not the other way around.


the doc said he thinks Ratts is a very good coach.... :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:41 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
The powers that be recognise that the message isn't getting through. Personally I think Ratts is very good coach - but not all the players are responding to their roles and that of life as an AFL footballer. There's half a dozen who can't be coached (in one ear and out the other) or are getting information overload. That's probably harsh - but they're struggling.

There's been some confronting moments, primarily addressed through Leading Teams that hasn't gone over well with some of the coaches and some of the players. Leadership is a big problem. It doesn't come from too many areas and is limited across the board. There's been a push of late to get a senior coach in to help Ratten...so assistants are on edge. A real lack of 25-30 year old age bracket who have leadership qualities. Really need a few more to grow up. Expect a big play for a senior player with oodles of leadership qualities in the off-season. Wheels already in motion. As much as Ratts needs help - Judd needs more help.


Doc - and others in the know or with more smarts than me - how do you go about fixing the issue of players who can't be coached/struggle with information overload/need to grow up? I've no doubt we have a few of those on our side based on recent performances, but what do you do?

I guess it's a bit of chicken and egg thing - do you change the players because they can't/won't be coached, or do you change the coach to someone who the players will respond to? Or do you just wait for them to grow up and hope they change their attitude?

I hate to go back to the young team argument, but maybe "immature team" is more appropriate - perhaps our blokes just need another year to drop the FIGJAM attitude some of them have?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:45 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Well we could turnover all the players and give Ratts more time to rebuild....we could....but let's hope logic will prevail....we can only hope..

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:48 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Well we could turnover all the players and give Ratts more time to rebuild....we could....but let's hope logic will prevail....we can only hope..


Or we could change the coach who may turnover all the players and rebuild.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:50 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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verbs wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Well we could turnover all the players and give Ratts more time to rebuild....we could....but let's hope logic will prevail....we can only hope..


Or we could change the coach who may turnover all the players and rebuild.


like I said we can only hope logic will prevail...

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
the doc said he thinks Ratts is a very good coach.... :lol:


You can bait me all you want. You're nothing but a troll on this site who should have been kicked off months ago. The fact is that you don't really get it...it frustrates you and so you repeat yourself adnauseum in the hope that one day your premonition comes true. If it does, you'll probably gloat for eternity. And then find someone else to pot. That's how people at your level of intelligence react to the knowledge that they're not that bright. Look on the bright side though - at least you know it! :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:47 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Good point. The Doc rebutts the argument of those he doesn't agree with by trotting out lines like, "you have no idea of professional sport" Professional sport success is based around buiding a champion team, not the other way around.


Listen ...i wrote that based on Juddernaut stating that the 'players want Ratten to be sacked and that's why they're playing like that'...that's just a dumb thing to say...but you're just as clueless, so I don't expect you to understand.


Template response #021 or was that 022

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:56 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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You and J&TK need to get a room. The bar fridge would have a higher IQ, but I'm sure you'd have lots to talk about...repetitive though it may be - plenty to talk about :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:57 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
the doc said he thinks Ratts is a very good coach.... :lol:


You can bait me all you want. You're nothing but a troll on this site who should have been kicked off months ago. The fact is that you don't really get it...it frustrates you and so you repeat yourself adnauseum in the hope that one day your premonition comes true. If it does, you'll probably gloat for eternity. And then find someone else to pot. That's how people at your level of intelligence react to the knowledge that they're not that bright. Look on the bright side though - at least you know it! :thumbsup:



Yes Doc, the anger and frustration that most TC'ers on this website have dmonstrated over the last 7 weeks is more proof that JK or others "really don't get it". Maybe if Ratts could get the team playing a brand of football that resembles that of an AFL side, some of us would start to get it. Ratten will not coach beyond his contract (if he survives it) Get used to it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:03 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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99prelim wrote:
Ratten will not coach beyond his contract (if he survives it) Get used to it.


I've never said he should. Not once. I've stated he deserves to enter the final year of his contract (2011). All you guys have advocated is his sacking...which I'm not sure achieves much at all given that the club still has finals in it's sights. If we don't make the finals - the club, coach, players have failed. Either way, there will be a review. Processes will change. Player personnel will change.

But go and keep calling for his sacking...you're not proving to anyone that you know anything else.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:34 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:34 pm
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I was one of a very few who defended Pagan (his performance to get 10 wins in 2004 was phenomenal but a hollow victory as all it did was cost us a season).

Just before he was sacked, with all on TC calling for his blood, I suggested whoever replaced him would be in a similar position within a year or two. It's taken a little longer than I thought but here we are. Ratts has a much better list than Pagan ever had, but he's now just as despised due to his perceived ineptitude.

I don't think Ratts is a good coach but the main problem is that supporters are unrealistic. I heard caller after caller on talkback today saying "we have the talent". I've read post after post on this site saying the coach needs to do this or do that.

It's all crap!!!!! Our players (even our very best) have serious deficiencies. Most are atrocious kicks, some refuse to push back or chase when the opposition have the ball and a few are unwilling to put their bodies on the line when the situation demands.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:24 am 
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Rod Ashman

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More youth and at la turnover of players to come of course - but how many will go ?

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