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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:06 am 
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Bruce Doull
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bondiblue wrote:
Cox 204cm and 106 cms playing

So that's Cox and mini-Cox, or... :yikes:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:37 am 
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Trevor Keogh

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Blue Vain wrote:
If you disregard structures for a moment and focus on contested footy, the minimum expectation from a one on one contest should be an approximate 50% positive outcome. In other words, if I man up the opposition backmen one on one, I'd expect a minimum 50% contest wins (Considering our team have control of the ball when going forward)
Yet if you look at our statistical outcomes in our past 2 games, we've had 18 scoring shots from 52 and 53 inside 50s respectively.
In simple terms, the ball has been in the control of a Carlton player gouing forward 52 times per game for approximately 1 scoring shot per 3 entries! That tells me the opposing players are rebounding 2 out of every 3 entries.

What is the answer? For starters, be quicker when our forward entries and stop looking for the perfect option. Secondly, tell our forwards to forget the lazy option of leading to the boundary line.
I'd rather a predictable option of going long to a 3 on 3. Then the onus is on our forwards to work hard enough to get 1 scoring shot from every 2 opportunities. If they cant get close to that on a consistent basis, they'll struggle to make AFL football anyway so It's better that we find out asap. If the opposition start dropping backs off to the hotspot, we need to hit up the forward who has been freed up. At the moment, we are playing a game we're not capable of.
Lastly, I'd play a one on one forward line. If they want to play with 8 backs, we need to play 8 forwards. As long as we play smart footy and lead up into the midfield, there will be space. The most important aspect is to gain a contest at every forward entry. If our mids keep working hard and getting us 50-55 forward 50 entries, we should end up with 25-30 scoring shots which will win more games than you lose.


I agree that our forwards lead to the boundary line too often. Has been going on for more than a year. Whether it is player laziness or poor coaching, opinions will differ.

Where I disagree with you is that our midfielders look for the perfect option and don’t get it inside 50 quick enough.

The biggest problem with our forward line in my opinion has been the ‘roll up’ strategy that leaves our forward line empty of Carlton players, with only opposition backmen zoning off. It’s probably hard to see on TV, but at the games, it’s obvious when a Carlton midfielder is streaming through the middle, they often have nobody leading at them demanding the ball. Instead, they have forwards who have ‘rolled up’ retreating back to goal asking for the ball over their heads. It looks terrible and the result is terrible.


Your ‘50% of contests’ theory is sound as long as the coaches park a Navy Blue footballer inside 50 to be at the bloody contest! At the moment, that is not happening on too many occasions which is why the zoning off defenders have killed us.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:43 am 
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Trevor Keogh

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By the way, our record at notching up soft wins against bottom four opposition has been quite reliable over the last two years.

On that evidence alone, you'd think we'll win this one.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:46 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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jimmae wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Cox 204cm and 106 cms playing

So that's Cox and mini-Cox, or... :yikes:


That would be Cox and ... er ... Cok.....

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:47 am 
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Bruce Doull
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simonverbeek wrote:
Where I disagree with you is that our midfielders look for the perfect option and don’t get it inside 50 quick enough.

I don't follow how that's disagreeing with him?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:11 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

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jimmae wrote:
simonverbeek wrote:
Where I disagree with you is that our midfielders look for the perfect option and don’t get it inside 50 quick enough.

I don't follow how that's disagreeing with him?


Sorry, was 4 in the morning and my syntax was poor!

He said
Quote:
For starters, be quicker when our forward entries and stop looking for the perfect option


I disagree that our midfielders have anything to do with it. IMO the problem is with what lies ahead of them (which is often sweet f all).

BV has a great point with at a minimum winning 50% of contests I50, but the way our forwards have been told to set up for the past 5 or 6 weeks has given us little chance of doing it.

They may change the overzealous 'rolling up' tonight, but it would still come 3 weeks after many of us noticed it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:50 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Anyone have any spare tickets lying around for tonight? 2 or 3??
:thanks:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:21 pm 
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If we can't win this; we don't deserve to be there......(in the Finals)

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:17 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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simonverbeek wrote:
I disagree that our midfielders have anything to do with it. IMO the problem is with what lies ahead of them (which is often sweet f all).

BV has a great point with at a minimum winning 50% of contests I50, but the way our forwards have been told to set up for the past 5 or 6 weeks has given us little chance of doing it.

They may change the overzealous 'rolling up' tonight, but it would still come 3 weeks after many of us noticed it.

The roll down is as much the midfield's fault as it is the forward line. The midfield rolls down to about CHB and just sits around the arc like idiots, with the odd midfielder actually in the 50.

This opens up the entire midfield unless the forward line also drifts down. Then we have the ball the midfield push forward too quickly in too great a set of numbers and leave the defence with limited options to dispose to. Running both ways like that so mindlessly exhausts all three groups, but it's clear to me that the midfield is to blame for our forward line making lack lustre leads AND being congested.

Notice the difference in the second half. Imagine that without a half of football mindlessly chasing. Imagine the kind of leads we could make if we weren't always chasing tail due to inept play. The same thing applies to the kicking, but there have been some genuinely poor disposals into the fifty because players are in the midst of silly mind games about their own form and the form of their team mates. It's the same thing that sees Judd demanding the ball too much and carrying it for far too long.

Every line has an issue, but the biggest one definitely lies with the midfield. Stop that and you start our form again.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:37 pm 
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Garry Crane
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Blues2005 wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
ryan2000 wrote:
West Coast by 19!


Sorry, not being negative or anything but as it stands, they are the better team ATM.


But they are paying over $4 and are last on the ladder....


Most betting outlets have Carlton as slight favourites at about $1.80-$1.85 and West Coast as slight underdogs at about $1.90-$2.

Not sure where you're getting $4 from. But let me know! :lol: :wink:


You can get Crabs for $4.

MV race 7

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:40 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

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jimmae wrote:
simonverbeek wrote:
I disagree that our midfielders have anything to do with it. IMO the problem is with what lies ahead of them (which is often sweet f all).

BV has a great point with at a minimum winning 50% of contests I50, but the way our forwards have been told to set up for the past 5 or 6 weeks has given us little chance of doing it.

They may change the overzealous 'rolling up' tonight, but it would still come 3 weeks after many of us noticed it.

The roll down is as much the midfield's fault as it is the forward line. The midfield rolls down to about CHB and just sits around the arc like idiots, with the odd midfielder actually in the 50.

This opens up the entire midfield unless the forward line also drifts down. Then we have the ball the midfield push forward too quickly in too great a set of numbers and leave the defence with limited options to dispose to. Running both ways like that so mindlessly exhausts all three groups, but it's clear to me that the midfield is to blame for our forward line making lack lustre leads AND being congested.

Notice the difference in the second half. Imagine that without a half of football mindlessly chasing. Imagine the kind of leads we could make if we weren't always chasing tail due to inept play. The same thing applies to the kicking, but there have been some genuinely poor disposals into the fifty because players are in the midst of silly mind games about their own form and the form of their team mates. It's the same thing that sees Judd demanding the ball too much and carrying it for far too long.

Every line has an issue, but the biggest one definitely lies with the midfield. Stop that and you start our form again.


Jimmae, I think the common thread in both our posts is that too many of our players have no idea where to run to and how to position themselves smartly. That is, they don't operate within an effective or reliable team structure to guide their positioning and run.

I think it is obvious that this is the coach's responsibility, though I acknowledge you may disagree.

Never fear, we'll look better against the bottom team in the comp tonight. Our record against bottom 4 teams is infallible.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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simonverbeek wrote:
jimmae wrote:
simonverbeek wrote:
I disagree that our midfielders have anything to do with it. IMO the problem is with what lies ahead of them (which is often sweet f all).

BV has a great point with at a minimum winning 50% of contests I50, but the way our forwards have been told to set up for the past 5 or 6 weeks has given us little chance of doing it.

They may change the overzealous 'rolling up' tonight, but it would still come 3 weeks after many of us noticed it.

The roll down is as much the midfield's fault as it is the forward line. The midfield rolls down to about CHB and just sits around the arc like idiots, with the odd midfielder actually in the 50.

This opens up the entire midfield unless the forward line also drifts down. Then we have the ball the midfield push forward too quickly in too great a set of numbers and leave the defence with limited options to dispose to. Running both ways like that so mindlessly exhausts all three groups, but it's clear to me that the midfield is to blame for our forward line making lack lustre leads AND being congested.

Notice the difference in the second half. Imagine that without a half of football mindlessly chasing. Imagine the kind of leads we could make if we weren't always chasing tail due to inept play. The same thing applies to the kicking, but there have been some genuinely poor disposals into the fifty because players are in the midst of silly mind games about their own form and the form of their team mates. It's the same thing that sees Judd demanding the ball too much and carrying it for far too long.

Every line has an issue, but the biggest one definitely lies with the midfield. Stop that and you start our form again.


Jimmae, I think the common thread in both our posts is that too many of our players have no idea where to run to and how to position themselves smartly. That is, they don't operate within an effective or reliable team structure to guide their positioning and run.

I think it is obvious that this is the coach's responsibility, though I acknowledge you may disagree.

Never fear, we'll look better against the bottom team in the comp tonight. Our record against bottom 4 teams is infallible.


We hope!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:24 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Carlton by 8 goals+
Yarran to have a blinder. 4 goals+.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:58 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Geez this is must win stuff, lose and we will most likely fall out of the 8.

There are so many differing opinions on this site but come 7.30 tonight we should all band together and get behind our mob to regain some confidence and form, regardless of who is/isn't playing!

RUN, CREATE, TAKE RISKS! and Ratt's please for the love of the club try to win this game, instead of trying not to lose!

CMON YOU BLUE BOYS!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:12 pm 
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I hope they watched the game last night. In particular there was a terrific long shot of St.Kilda player about to kick into his 50m after taking a mark. There was at least six St.Kilda players leading, running back ... pretty well in constant motion. No matter how down we might be in confidence, there's no excuse for not running and trying to create opportunities.

Incidentally, the players seem to know exactly where to run and appeared to be following a pattern. Hope Lappin was watching too.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:28 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I'm making a promise. They lose tonight, I'll offcially join the "sakc Ratts" brigade

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:34 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Donstuie wrote:
I'm making a promise. They lose tonight, I'll offcially join the "sakc Ratts" brigade


I'm not so sure our bandwagon has room for latecomers like urself Don.... :grin: :wink: :razz:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:07 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Will Le Cras kick 13 tonight? He is gonna be a tough match-up.

Really looking forward to watching Ellard.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:32 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Donstuie wrote:
I'm making a promise. They lose tonight, I'll offcially join the "sakc Ratts" brigade


+1

I was almost there already, however a loss - or even worse - a bad loss will be too much 4 me to handle.

Good luck Dave Ellard!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:34 pm 
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Cmon you bastards, turn up to play.


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