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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:38 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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So my 4yr old daughter vs my 18month son in a see who can ride their Shrek car fastest to the front door. My daughter just had a sook because my son cut corners, she tells me it's not fair I want to win, I told her go faster, so she gave him a Sammy Newman slap and took off.

Morale of the story, she learnt how to win no matter what it took and showed a bit of mongrel in doing it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:44 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Not sure why so many are calling for Houla's return...since the biggest complaint is that are players are soft then Hoops isn't exactly going to toughen us up...plus prior to his injury he was playing poorly..

We should win this based on the fact we are playing the team on the bottom of the ladder so if we don't then we have slumped to an embarrassing new low...

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:47 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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[quote="Juddy&theKruezers"]Not sure why so many are calling for Houla's return...since the biggest complaint is that are players are soft then Hoops isn't exactly going to toughen us up...plus prior to his injury he was playing poorly..
quote]

Don't worry about Houla, he didn't play last week. Do you understand why posters for weeks now have been calling for Jammo's head?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:17 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
Jimmae - explain how we can play Zach Tuohy without receiving a fine from the AFL? I wouldn't have thought he was permitted to play this year. As for next year - I hold high hopes for Zach.

In: Hoops, Ellard
Out: Grigg, Lucas

At present we have rookie slots available for O'Keeffe & Kreuzer as well as the one free elevation as per list concessions for the GC/NWS transition. Currently Ellard is the only one promoted.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:23 pm 
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Kreuzer was placed on the long term injury list today

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:56 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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jimmae wrote:
In: Ellard, Houlihan, Thornton
Out: Lucas (inj), Carrazzo, Jamison


Yep, these would be my changes too. I'd also give serious consideration to bringing in Warnock for Jacobs. I'm not convinced that he'll do better than Jacobs, but I think it's time to give Warnock another go...

Tex & Robbo very lucky to hold their spots ahead of Carlos & Davies/Hadley/Johnson.

If Hoops doesn't come up, either Carrots stays in or we promote one of Davies/Hadley/Johnson instead (probably Johnson).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:28 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
Jimmae - explain how we can play Zach Tuohy without receiving a fine from the AFL? I wouldn't have thought he was permitted to play this year. As for next year - I hold high hopes for Zach.

In: Hoops, Ellard
Out: Grigg, Lucas


Grigg?

He was a slow starter but I thought his second half was good enough to keep him. On top of that on more than one ocassion he found good space but the ball carrier didn't see him. Not sure what more you can ask from a guy just into the team.

I agree about Ellard though - everyone seems to reckon he's been dominating the 2's.

Fisher's the mystery to me. Ratts seemed to indicate he was overlooked because of injury ... then he goes and plays for the
Ants and kicks another four. Surely worth a go this week.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:35 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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aboynamedsue wrote:
Yep, these would be my changes too. I'd also give serious consideration to bringing in Warnock for Jacobs. I'm not convinced that he'll do better than Jacobs, but I think it's time to give Warnock another go...

Sounds like you'll get your wish there ABNS, but I keep looking at the way Jacobs does everything he can possibly do when in the vicinity of the ball, then compare it to Warnock's previous output at senior level.

I suppose the time is ripe for Jacobs to have a spell and Hampson to step up his time in the ruck, but Warnock needs to seriously up his performance, which from all reports (including your own) isn't happening at VFL level.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:20 pm 
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Ken Hands
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jimmae wrote:
In: Ellard, Houlihan, Thornton
Out: Lucas (inj), Carrazzo, Jamison

Very much a tale of two halves today.

Gibbs was continually moved around and punished by his team mates in the first half, fine in the second. He may not be setting the world on fire, but he's not really getting the chance to.

Murphy was absolutely woeful in the first half; completely lacking confidence, and at one point gave away a shot he would have been happy to take mere weeks ago. In the second half he was about as defensively disciplined as I have ever seen him. In my opinion, he saved his bacon with that form reversal.

Russell, Armfield, Walker, Bower, Joseph and even Jamison were victims of the lack of pressure in midfield. Jamison, however, was woeful in everything but following his man. Has to go back to the VFL, which is where he should have gone last week. In comes the bloke who should have stayed.

Waite was all over the shop at times but so was the rest of the team in Ratten's ridiculous roll down. I'm glad he abandoned zone defending in the midfield for the second half; we looked much better for it. However he's been instructing the players on zones seems to be confusing them, as they zoned off and closed down much better in their attempt at a man-on-man defence. Back to Waite: he deserves another week despite his inept and lazy field kicking, simply because he had a dip.

Robinson was definitely the victim of the coaches instructions. He is not a modern day half-forward, and never will be.

Judd, Scotland and Simpson were consistently put under pressure by their team mates ball movement and the surface, and then when those two didn't get at them, the weight of their own expectations seemed to. They need a bit of help.

Henderson, Garlett, Yarran & Betts all had a real dip and all looked dangerous for periods of the game despite the midfield allowing Sydney to set up something of a siege; their necks are spared.

That leaves Carrazzo; how a senior player can be so mindless and self-satisfied is beyond me. Since the Saints game, his stopping jobs have been over-hyped, and consistently inconsistent. This guy keeps getting a free pass when he should be a candidate to win the ball inside, and provide protection for our other clearance players. It seems he has sacrificed just about every other aspect of his game to be our midfield shut-down guy. Time for a break, because apparently the half-time bake did not help you.

Finally, an issue presents itself with Lucas having another hamstring twinge: why are our players coming off as lacking zip, or incapable of laying a bump? Are we over-working them during the week, or are we under-supervising their conditioning and they're taking short cuts with stretching, physio, etc. I know Cordy does his job well, but what about the physio and medico staff that work with him, or does it come from the coaching side of things exerting pressure to get required players in the match-day mix? We have had a number of players hit a physical wall, and very few of them have recuperated.

If Houlihan isn't right to go, I'd think about bringing in one of Johnson or Tuohy.

Great post Jimmae. :clap: Would be happy to see those changes this week. Especially seeing a good ol' Districts boy in Ellard finally getting a shot. Hopefully it is not a one game only shot like last time.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:08 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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jimmae wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Yep, these would be my changes too. I'd also give serious consideration to bringing in Warnock for Jacobs. I'm not convinced that he'll do better than Jacobs, but I think it's time to give Warnock another go...

Sounds like you'll get your wish there ABNS, but I keep looking at the way Jacobs does everything he can possibly do when in the vicinity of the ball, then compare it to Warnock's previous output at senior level.

I suppose the time is ripe for Jacobs to have a spell and Hampson to step up his time in the ruck, but Warnock needs to seriously up his performance, which from all reports (including your own) isn't happening at VFL level.


Warnock's VFL form hasn't been bad at all, but you're right to say that he hasn't exactly kicked the selectors' door down either...

I just think it might be timely now to mix things up in the ruck. Jacobs has done quite well for a young player but he was soundly beaten on Sunday, IMO. And we haven't seen the Warnock/Hampson combination working in tandom at AFL level yet - so let's so how they go up against a very good combination in Cox/NicNat.

Warnock's coming from a long way back after missing a lot of footy in the previous couple of years, but I thought he showed some encouraging signs at AFL level earlier in the year. After a couple of months developing his craft away from the spotlight in the VFL, let's see if there's any signs of improvement...

I'm not expecting him to be a world beater just yet, but I'll be looking for more intensity in his play and a greater physical presence - although, I suspect he won't have the body to do it consistently for awhile (I assume his foot problems have made the fitness staff reluctant to add much bulk to his frame too quickly? Or is he just a slack weights trainer?).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:25 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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aboynamedsue wrote:
(I assume his foot problems have made the fitness staff reluctant to add much bulk to his frame too quickly? Or is he just a slack weights trainer?).

Definitely the former.

Looking back on his omission, I think I was arguing a similar case against Jacobs, although Bullants reports were glowing.

I'm definitely a fan of Warnock's smarts and left foot, I just hope he has gone up a notch in intensity and around the ground ruckwork.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:42 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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bondiblue wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Not sure why so many are calling for Houla's return...since the biggest complaint is that are players are soft then Hoops isn't exactly going to toughen us up...plus prior to his injury he was playing poorly..
quote]

Don't worry about Houla, he didn't play last week. Do you understand why posters for weeks now have been calling for Jammo's head?


Doesn't really interest me Bondi...couple of changes here couple of changes there will not make one iota of a difference....

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:58 am 
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Rod McGregor

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jimmae wrote:
Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
Jimmae - explain how we can play Zach Tuohy without receiving a fine from the AFL? I wouldn't have thought he was permitted to play this year. As for next year - I hold high hopes for Zach.

In: Hoops, Ellard
Out: Grigg, Lucas

At present we have rookie slots available for O'Keeffe & Kreuzer as well as the one free elevation as per list concessions for the GC/NWS transition. Currently Ellard is the only one promoted.


Garlett also promoted, and I would think they'd use the other spot on White.

I'd like to see Jamo given a game up forward. He's been shit on by LeCras in previous meetings, and no real matchup for him. History of full backs being given a run up forward to freshen up, and we couldn't do much worse in the forward line. More output than having him play on some dog in the twos.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:05 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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TheSilentLurkerType wrote:
jimmae wrote:
Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
Jimmae - explain how we can play Zach Tuohy without receiving a fine from the AFL? I wouldn't have thought he was permitted to play this year. As for next year - I hold high hopes for Zach.

In: Hoops, Ellard
Out: Grigg, Lucas

At present we have rookie slots available for O'Keeffe & Kreuzer as well as the one free elevation as per list concessions for the GC/NWS transition. Currently Ellard is the only one promoted.


Garlett also promoted, and I would think they'd use the other spot on White.

I'd like to see Jamo given a game up forward. He's been shit on by LeCras in previous meetings, and no real matchup for him. History of full backs being given a run up forward to freshen up, and we couldn't do much worse in the forward line. More output than having him play on some dog in the twos.

Garlett wasnt promoted, he is our nominated rookie.
Seems this week we are going to concentrate on LeCras which means someone else will bob up and kick a bagfull of goals.
Well done to Walker for finally playing his 100th game, pity is isnt in Melbourne.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:00 am 
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Ken Hunter
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For me the whole side has lost faith in the forward structure - including the forwards plus the opposition know how to sit on the 3 amigos so i think its the forward line that needs a shake up to give everyone the belief we can kick goals.

I'd try this

Jammo JR Waite
Yarran Bower Simmo
Scotland Judd Garlett
Walker Hendo Carrots
Betts T-Bird Murphy

Warnock AJ Gibbs

Hammer Army Ellard Grigg

Simmo to backline (hopefully breaks his tag, Yarran to backline for run and disposal, JR on Lecras

Tex and T-Bird to help Hendo out in the air (and told not to drift to far up the ground (particularly T-Bird)

AJ to tag

Murphy Gibbs Judd Betts Ellard Grigg to rotate onball

Waite/Hammer/T-Bird/Tex/Hendo to mix up the foward and back structure at various times and even let Waite drift forward with Walker/T-Bird/ Hendo

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:04 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Dunno, think we need to go a bit radical this week, think of dropping Waite and Thornton for the Crows AAMI win, I like the omen.

Outs - Joseph (needs a spell, struggling), Jacobs (let's look at Warnock at his old stamping ground), Lucas (inj), Jamo

Ins - Ellard, T-Bird, Johnson, Warnock

I'd go Bower on Le Cras, Walker and T-Bird next in line. Jamo just going too badly to even contemplate it at the moment, Russell thrashed by him @ Etihad last game, no way. Though, wouldn't be surprised to see Gibbs going to him, Ellard can do what he's supposed to do in the guts.

Johnson has been very good past two in VFL apparently, has to be a big chance. Was impressed with his greater
"physicality" prior to his injury, he was doing OK too. Joseph has been very ordinary of late.

I'd keep Carrots as he's an AAMI/Subi specialist, has a very impressive record on these grounds. Virtually BOG our past two @ Subi.

No Houla, show me some form first.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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dannyboy wrote:
For me the whole side has lost faith in the forward structure - including the forwards plus the opposition know how to sit on the 3 amigos so i think its the forward line that needs a shake up to give everyone the belief we can kick goals.

I'd like the 3 amigos and Lappin to sit down and recognise who their likely opponents are, and identify how each of them can exploit their weaknesses and nullify their strengths should they be matched up on them.

I'd then like the 3 amigos to be able to communicate this pre-game and on-field to their team mates so they know who to look for, and who not to. Rhyce Shaw did this to perfection on the weekend, bamboozling our defence with 3 goals as a defensive/dummy forward.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:41 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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part of my thinking is that the 3 amigoes is 1 idea

so change it around and discover alternatives (it may be too soon but with how we are going I feel we may as well try it).

Yarran HBF - great delivery and I'd hope we can draw him more into the game, get him involved.

Garlett wing - can be wasted and (like Yazz and Betts) drift out of the game left in the forward line.

Tex to the forward line - just seems a bit flat, might enjoy the chance to snag a few and he'd give us flexibility - which with his pace, could be his best asset to the side (if developed)

Just 3 changes that could happen.

At the moment we could be making a fundamental flaw.

Its not working so we are doing it harder

rather than

if something is not working try something different.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:05 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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jimmae wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
For me the whole side has lost faith in the forward structure - including the forwards plus the opposition know how to sit on the 3 amigos so i think its the forward line that needs a shake up to give everyone the belief we can kick goals.

I'd like the 3 amigos and Lappin to sit down and recognise who their likely opponents are, and identify how each of them can exploit their weaknesses and nullify their strengths should they be matched up on them.

I'd then like the 3 amigos to be able to communicate this pre-game and on-field to their team mates so they know who to look for, and who not to. Rhyce Shaw did this to perfection on the weekend, bamboozling our defence with 3 goals as a defensive/dummy forward.



I have no idea how cluey Lappin is. Does anyone know if he'd be able to undertake this kind of analysis.

I have my doubts.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:44 pm 
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You've got me thinking dannyboy and jimmae.

I don't know if the formula is Setanta and the 3 Helpers or whether the 3 Amigos can do it alone.
What I do know is that the 3 whatevers are capable forwards and agree forward movement has been abysmal.

I loved the way Yarran ran and carried the ball.
That was one BIG highlight for me, so there's good reason to play him further up the ground.
I don't know if he has the body strength to play HB at senior level; perhaps wing for him.

What I do know is that the WCE will play NicNat/Cox, Lynch and Kennedy in the forwardline.
There will be Hansen missing, but still, there will be 3 huge players (Kennedy being the smallest at 197cm).
That's 3 handy targets, with LeCras hanging around, we have to match them all. Ebert is also dangerous but inexperienced.

I wanted to drop Jammo, but White is injured, Austin is underdone and if Waite played back we'd have to bring in Setanta at FF.
I still would like to bring in Setanta for this game, but because we need 3 talls in the backline, Jammo reluctantly keeps his spot and Thornton returns. No way should Jammo be played on LeCras. I would put Walker on him or even Russell.

So who plays forward? Henderson as the presenting CHF on the big Subiaco ground is a goer.
Waite plays in the forwardline as the deep target and released upfield more when Hampson takes the FF spot.

I'm guessing Warnock will be back to play on the big ground at Jacobs' expense.
I knew in the first 5 minutes Jacobs wasn't on song. The same happened the previous week.
He's lost his touch imo.

IN: Thornton Warnock Houlihan Ellard....and maybe Setanta
OUT: Grigg Jacobs Joseph Lucas...and maybe....dunno....One of the amigos? Robbo?

Carrazzo to tag Priddis.

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