I hope you get the fact that I am a passionate man when it comes to Carlton

Thats what it about. Being passionate about what you love

Not a 2 year old tantrum

It tears at my flower heart seeing that peformance Sunday night and that its not just Thornton but its the people we put our faith in as supporters who run the club.

So to whoever is responsible for picking Thornton most weeks without addressing problems to the point that there isnt a permanent change in the way he plays need to leave.There not good enough as well

I have had it with the club until the changes I want take place

I live in geelong and wont spend 2 hours in it to see Thornton abuse his teammates or Houlihan play like that anymore and seeing only one method of play from a coach who has had 3 flower years to come up with plan B,C...

If Ratts is to go as appears to be the consensus, who should replace him?

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"Get ready, Teddy - you're on": Ron Barassi half time 1970 Grand Final

a complete overhaul of the coaching department would be risky. There is too big of a chance that the new bloke could be worse and take us backwards, I guess it depends who comes up. If Mick Malthouse came up then I'd grab him, not sure when he'll leave Collingwood though. One thing about Collingwood is they can get the best out of their players, they don't have a team of guns like the saints and cats, in fact I don't think they are all that much better than us on paper but they are loads better than us and are a top sides because their player are all on the same wavelength, they don't just play the one way all the time, they play according to the situation and they have a good game plan with good little variations to it.

What I want to see is a team of assistants with more diversity, not just a bunch of ex-carlton players who were all small and medium sized players. Assistant's role is to bring something different to the table and someone with expertise in certian areas. Also none of our assistants have expierence playing the game as tall players. Not great seeing we are trying to develop young talls. Wayne Carey was at Carlton briefly and IIRC improved Fevola's game out of sight. We need to get our hands on assistants who have expierence at other clubs and at clubs who had a successful era while they were there.
Lloyd has expierence as a tall and would have loads to offer guys like Henderson and Casboult and would make a good forward coach and assistant to Ratts. If not Lloyd then maybe a Neitz or someone like that.
SOS I know is an ex-Carlton person but he has had a lot of time at the saints and will be able to bring something different to carlton. He as a player was also a gun forward and would be able to help out the forwards as well. What about Tyson Edwards as an assistant? Our midfield lacks a defencive side and he comes from the Crows who were good at implementing a defencive game plan. Maybe Lockyer or someone from Collingwood will be available. Collingwood play a very good game plan, one we could learn a heck of a lot from.

Results like the ones against Collingwood, Bulldogs, Hawthorn and North Melbourne games were due to the way we play our footy. I don't think it was because it was because we weren't having a go or because we weren't good enough, it was the game plan or lack of.
I guess perhaps you could make a case that the players struggle to identify the situation up ahead and fail to make the right decision on how to play according to the situation. Perhaps our inability to change the style of footy we play stems from our lack of expierence or perhaps it's just that we have a group who are poor at taking instruction and working as a team. Or perhaps Ratts and Co have not identified the deficiancies in our game plan. I'm not guessing, the way we position, the areas we run and don't run, the style of footy we play and the lack of variation we have when approaching the forwardline is glaringly obvious. We are predictable and easy to counteract. Don't get me wrong, our players are trying hard but they are just doing it wrong.

You dont know. What you do is have an interview process thats thorough
Pagan was handed the job
Ratten was just about handed the job compared to other coaches

I had to laugh when It was suggested that Hird should be coach of Essendon*

What are his COACHING credentials

Look no further than Voss

A coach in waiting must gain experience being an assistant for at least a few years preferbably at a successful club.
He must have a desired time in the AFL system

Ratten had one year at Melbourne coached in the 'burbs' then was an assistant to Pagan for a short time before taking over when Pagan was sacked.
Not enough experience and pissweak interview process.

Just go out an get the best coach available via the proper process.

Very simple to say they have lost 9 in a row

Richmond got the wrong coach in Teflon Terry

Hardwick inherited a basket case
So what he has he done
He delisted Bowden
Brown
Coughlan
Hughes
Johnson
Oakley -Nicholls
Pattison
Pettifer
Putt
Raines
Richardson
Schultz
and during the season Simmonds
He has also told Roberts to go back home and get fairdinkum

With the possible exceptionof Schultz these guys were not going to take the Tigers any further

He wont play McMahon,Morton(despite being Richmond' leading goalkicker last year) Polo

The guy has a clear agenda for the future

So they lost the first 9 games
Thats possible when you inherit a basket case or a team teflons coached
It aint going to happen overnight
He has a clear view of what he wants and the sort of playing style he desires from every player.
And if it doesnt happen he deals with it quickly
There is a clear purpose for the future

Forget about game plans and just think about playing as a team

Houlihan and Thornton would not get a game at Richmond for obvious reasons

Hardwick is on a clear path for the future
Ratten aint

Think about it
In Hardwick's half season as coach he has stamped his authority on the club
has rats done that in his 2 and half seasons as coach.

Let me guess the outs. Carrazzo, Thornton, Carrazzo and Thornton?

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You want the flame? Give us the marbles!!

Think about it
In Hardwick's half season as coach he has stamped his authority on the club
has rats done that in his 2 and half seasons as coach.[/quote]



so scarily true I sh#t my pants when I read it!

I like what hardwick has done. His last teams last month has been exciting. I dont think the carlton fans would have taken too kindly to his first half of the season though.

Ratts picked up a basket case in 2008 and took it to 10 wins. Stamped his style on the team which was worlds away from pagans style and our wins against some of the top sides like collingwood were exciting and filled with passion. Some very spirited come from behind wins also.

Using Hardwick and richmond as an example should be done fairly.

POTM for mine. Wiggo is the only one who has had his papers stamped this year, when at least 3 or 4 others should have joined him.

Get Chocco.

Hardly a basket case with a plethora of top young draft picks and the best midfielder in the competition.

Not that funny Rex. 2008 we didnt have the best midfield in the comp. Just a couple of players with high draft numbers next to their names. Similar to richmond with Deledio, Cotchin, Tambling, Martin, Vickory, Reiwold etc.

Only difference was we had Judd (who limped through the season).

This all not really an issue worth getting in an argument about. I just think that using richmond as an example has to be looked at evenly.

agree club

Hey Hellas what's with the Thornton Carrazzo comedy act?

I've never potted either of them.

But I do reckon Carrazzo plays out of his capabilities. He should be told he's got two jobs and two jobs only - and which one it is is dependent on the opposition selections.
He's an inside grunter to pump it out to Judd, Murphy et al (and not be a outside receiver - because his disposal is not up to it) or,
he should tag heavily - as he did with Davey etc.

He is not a outside link up player by any means and lets us down with the reverse spin when in possession and bad disposal.

Thornton is much maligned but I think he probably does his best with the tools he's got. We need another tall back to stand up - white, Austin etc - and grab the opportunity here.

I would drop Joseph for Ellard and Houlihan for Grigg against the swans.

It's gonna be a grunt fest.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

At the risk of starting an all in brawl.

Recruit Fev! ....

There is a Rumor floating around that Brisbane are planning to send him to Collingwood.

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

Very interesting read. This thread motivated me to delve deeper into my Carlton heart and really analyse my own take on what's wrong. After 3 straight days of analysis, I have identified our problem.

We are not winning games.

To rectify this and rectify this well, we need a strategy. After a further 3 days of graph plotting and statistical analysis, I think I have come up with an answer.

We have to start winning games.

I sure hope the Carlton match committee is reading this!

Well we all have our own slant on what's wrong, but to me it's primarily kicking skills (or the lack there of).

You can have a genius coach with plans from A to Z, but if a large percentage of your side can't dispose of the ball by foot with any reliability....

The way the game has evolved kicking skills have never been more important. If you turn the ball over you are more vulnerable now than at any time in the game's history and the same applies with the new rule regarding bringing the ball back into play after a behind, kick a behind now and before you know it the opposition can be having a shot for goal.

Hawthorn understands the importance of kicking skills and recruited accordingly with the likes of Dew and Guerra, which to my mind went a long way to them winning the '08 flag, so I guess what I'm saying here is have our recruiters let us down?

It's not great to be at a match and to hear a supporter continually calling out in frustration "No, no, kick it to the blokes in the navy blue jumpers!". My daughter has never been an enthusiastic follower of footy, but her interest has increased somewhat since hooking up with a young man also from a dyed in the wool Carlton family. She doesn't profess to know much about the game, but was mightly frustrated by Sunday's effort. As she said to me after the game "These guys are professionals, shouldn't they be able to kick better than that?" Out of the mouths of babes.

I think our kicking skills are made look a lot worse than what they are. You see because we are positioning poorly, running to the rong areas and not working as a unit to creat space the options we have to kick to are dificult options. Good sides creat space, run to the right areas and make the right decisions to fit the situation ahead. We more often than not don't. Also the way we run and position leavs us more vulnerable than most sides due to our game plan having a very poor defencive aspect so when we do turn it over the opposition generally hurt us.

if i was to bring up any other issues with how we play it is that we don't switch the ball enough. Against Adelaide we did it beautifully, but now it's gone out of our game, just another way to creat space. Maybe we have become too obsessed with moving the ball quickly and forwards that we have forgot that there are times to go sideways to creat space.

We do switch, we just do it so slowly. And it's not Thornton's fault; there's not enough people presenting.

People go apeshit when Russell, Bower, Armfield, Simpson and the like go for a run, but these runs have become far too long now and without an option further afield to kick to they slow down our ball movement.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

We do switch but we were doing it more often. I suppose the emphasise has been on quick movement from defence which is a good thing. But we don't switch it once we get off halfback, we don't know when to slow the play up and work it around the forward half sideways and with short kicks.