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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:06 am 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 1:16 pm
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And to think I gave up coveted Dancing with the Stars tickets (I know to most of you sitting through this show would be worse) to attend the game yesterday...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:10 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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aido wrote:
To hear Matty Maguire thought our club was soulless and our playing group was lifeless hence why he and his manager stitched us up knowing the Lions were gonna grab him late in the draft.


Not sure how we were stitched up when we were never going to draft the guy. Maguire wouldn't have met half the playing list. His training with us consisted mainly of stationary handball drills and running laps on his lonesome.

aido wrote:
When you hear current and former players have nothing positive to say about our coach and how his negative mindset has had an impact on the group.


The former players of whom you speak wouldn't have been let go by the club would they? I don't have many nice things to say about my former bosses who didn't renew my contract either.

aido wrote:
You only hear great things about Brent Montogomery from who i speak to and if it weren't for him they think we would be in a much worse shape.


Brett has been doing a good job. Just turned 37 and by his own admission has a long way to go before he's ready for a senior coaching position. I'd suggest if Ratts were an assistant (where some believe he would do his best work) you'd hear some glowing reports about him too.

Keep in mind that there are guys at Geelong who are having a whinge about Mark Thompson. Same story at every club. A player believing he's being played out of position, was pushed too hard in the pre-season and 'that's why the injury came about', talked back to the coach, wasn't allowed an extra day off to go fishing on the Murray during the break...I've heard every single one of these - this year.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:12 am 
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Robert Walls
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aido wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
Seems to me the boys have not bonded properly.
They don't want to play for each other..they want to argue and point fingers.(a few exceptions)


Hate to say i told you so but under my many aliases i have reported such issues amongst the playing group and the coach. To hear Matty Maguire thought our club was soulless and our playing group was lifeless hence why he and his manager stitched us up knowing the Lions were gonna grab him late in the draft.

I'm gonna get in trouble for this one but i don't care anymore....... How can you be a 'team' when you have a former team mate p!ss!ng in a rookies bag and none of his team mates then do anything about it, especially when this player never own up to it but boasted about it.

When you hear current and former players have nothing positive to say about our coach and how his negative mindset has had an impact on the group.

When he have to resort to the president addressing the boys about his passion for Carlton time and time again.

You only hear great things about Brent Montogomery from who i speak to and if it weren't for him they think we would be in a much worse shape.

This is why we are seeing lack lustre performances coming from our boys.


Welcome back Melvs!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:17 am 
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Harry Vallence
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the sky didn't fall down overnight and amazingly the sun came out this morning.

to be honest, we've been heading for a belting for the last two month or so, our wins generally haven't been inspiring nor our losses ..

talk of making finals this year is a red herring, have been saying for a while, this year is a practice year and let's not get ahead of ourselves

I was disappointed but not overly concerned by the result nor at the likely scenario of not winning many more games this year

we are adjusting to a totally different and less dependent FF structure, our mid's ok and our back's almost there

injury has taken out a wonderfully talented ruckman + and we are adjusting to that as well

overall, a disjointed and at times frustrating set of performances ... to be expected

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:26 am 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 184
Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
aido wrote:
To hear Matty Maguire thought our club was soulless and our playing group was lifeless hence why he and his manager stitched us up knowing the Lions were gonna grab him late in the draft.


Not sure how we were stitched up when we were never going to draft the guy. Maguire wouldn't have met half the playing list. His training with us consisted mainly of stationary handball drills and running laps on his lonesome.

aido wrote:
When you hear current and former players have nothing positive to say about our coach and how his negative mindset has had an impact on the group.


The former players of whom you speak wouldn't have been let go by the club would they? I don't have many nice things to say about my former bosses who didn't renew my contract either.

aido wrote:
You only hear great things about Brent Montogomery from who i speak to and if it weren't for him they think we would be in a much worse shape.


Brett has been doing a good job. Just turned 37 and by his own admission has a long way to go before he's ready for a senior coaching position. I'd suggest if Ratts were an assistant (where some believe he would do his best work) you'd hear some glowing reports about him too.

Keep in mind that there are guys at Geelong who are having a whinge about Mark Thompson. Same story at every club. A player believing he's being played out of position, was pushed too hard in the pre-season and 'that's why the injury came about', talked back to the coach, wasn't allowed an extra day off to go fishing on the Murray during the break...I've heard every single one of these - this year.


The message im getting is that Brett Ratten has failed, well actually is failing to engage the players ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT!!!! - the player moved on by Ratts has the up most respect amongst the playing group and has no issue with his departure as he knew he was well off the mark. Matt Maguires first impressions of the club were far from what he been used to at his former club, yeah he may have been there a few weeks but first impressions always last and he was most pleased to be picked up by the Lions.

Not everyone has to get along with the coach but what you want is everyone reading from the same page........ thats not happening.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:49 pm 
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Bert Deacon
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aido wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
Seems to me the boys have not bonded properly.
They don't want to play for each other..they want to argue and point fingers.(a few exceptions)


Hate to say i told you so but under my many aliases i have reported such issues amongst the playing group and the coach. To hear Matty Maguire thought our club was soulless and our playing group was lifeless hence why he and his manager stitched us up knowing the Lions were gonna grab him late in the draft.

I am unhappy about our team like everyone else, but....

I think this says more about Matt Maguire and his manager than it does about Carlton.

I think its more soulless to leave a player stranded on 99 games for an eternity then dump him. And Voss selling out loyal and popular club men for a bunch of magic beans that have turned out to be poison seems pretty soulles to me.

Extremely glad to have been stiched up by Maguire, who has proven that he definitely was not worth a senior spot on our list.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:42 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Rocco Iguana wrote:
the sky didn't fall down overnight and amazingly the sun came out this morning.

to be honest, we've been heading for a belting for the last two month or so, our wins generally haven't been inspiring nor our losses ..

talk of making finals this year is a red herring, have been saying for a while, this year is a practice year and let's not get ahead of ourselves

I was disappointed but not overly concerned by the result nor at the likely scenario of not winning many more games this year

we are adjusting to a totally different and less dependent FF structure, our mid's ok and our back's almost there

injury has taken out a wonderfully talented ruckman + and we are adjusting to that as well

overall, a disjointed and at times frustrating set of performances ... to be expected


Yay the sun came up!

You have a great attitude. Go Blues!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:43 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:47 pm
Posts: 580
After some quiet reflection I think we are where we are suppossed to be. No way are we a top 4 side. How can we go from having the youngest list last year to be a genuine top 4 contender with a young list who are still learning? Doesnt happen that way. Im still willing to give this Coach and squad-with minor changes-some more time. The bile and vitriol should be saved for 2012, 2013 cos if there is no genuine improvement we've missed our window and it would be justified.

Lets remember the Bulldogs and Saints with their current lists have been knocking on the Premiership door for a long time. Hawthorn are an anomaly that gets thrown up every now and again and Bomber Thompson was on the verge of being sacked at least twice at Geelong before his golder run began.

I don't know as yet if Ratten is underachieving. Some of the Footy we've played this season has been breathtaking as it has been abysmal but that is the hallmark of a young developing side-inconsistency.

Having said all that the sooner Thornton goes the better and Waite really needs to wake up to himself and cut out these stupid suspensions.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:02 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Matt Maguire can lick Vossy's hairy ones AFAIC.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:53 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Would we still be so aggro if we'd gotten pumped by Geelong and St Kilda but beaten say Hawthorn and Norf instead?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:09 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Location: Southbank.
No....it was the WAY we played yesterday........like underage schoolboys.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:10 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Rocco Iguana wrote:
the sky didn't fall down overnight and amazingly the sun came out this morning.

to be honest, we've been heading for a belting for the last two month or so, our wins generally haven't been inspiring nor our losses ..

talk of making finals this year is a red herring, have been saying for a while, this year is a practice year and let's not get ahead of ourselves

I was disappointed but not overly concerned by the result nor at the likely scenario of not winning many more games this year

we are adjusting to a totally different and less dependent FF structure, our mid's ok and our back's almost there

injury has taken out a wonderfully talented ruckman + and we are adjusting to that as well

overall, a disjointed and at times frustrating set of performances ... to be expected


If you expect mediocre...that is exactly what you will get....we need to set higher standards..

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Don't be fooled......yesterday; we were pathetic....and wearing mouthguards to training this week (as Ratts has ordered); will only wear out the troops and possibly incur injuries.

We need inspiration and guidance; not a flogging.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:16 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/newsar ... fault.aspx

Quote:
Stani - 9:12 AM Monday, July 12, 2010
GO THE BLUES!!!
What happen man we wore finally tipped to lose a match and when that usually happens we get up and win. i want to know how do we beat the teams like st kilda and geelong but we cant beat the teams that we would think we had a chance to beat

Dennis Armfield: Stani, very good question, when we are playing bold, corridor footy and taking teams on we look very good. But we also have to remember, stopping a goal is far more important than kicking one. I think against good sides we really come focused in all areas, however if we aren’t 100% switched on then we seem to fall away in areas. Against Sydney it will be about winning the one on one contest for the full 120 minutes.


Bull. Shit. Dennis.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:28 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 10:26 am
Posts: 939
I am rarely critical of individual players on this site, but there comes a time when you have to call a spade a spade. SETANTA - I love your spirit & enthusiasm, but you are not & unfortunately never will be a key forward in this competition. At 199cm, he can't take a contested overhead mark, even against significantly shorter opponents. The sooner that the selectors realise this the better off we will be. Fisher & Waite both have to play in the forward line this week - because they can actually take a contested mark. Waite needs to become our permanent full forward. Lukas should play all remaining games becuse he has genuine talent which needs to be developed. His last game was pretty good from what I saw - so why was he dropped ??? I just get the impression that we are messing around with the confidence & development of a good kid, while forgiving the ineptitude from others. I don't get it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:53 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:36 pm
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coach and mc got it wrong from the start really grigg should have had a job on griffin imo.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:13 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:58 pm
Posts: 394
Location: Melton
Asp wrote:
I am rarely critical of individual players on this site, but there comes a time when you have to call a spade a spade. SETANTA - I love your spirit & enthusiasm, but you are not & unfortunately never will be a key forward in this competition. At 199cm, he can't take a contested overhead mark, even against significantly shorter opponents. The sooner that the selectors realise this the better off we will be. Fisher & Waite both have to play in the forward line this week - because they can actually take a contested mark. Waite needs to become our permanent full forward. Lukas should play all remaining games becuse he has genuine talent which needs to be developed. His last game was pretty good from what I saw - so why was he dropped ??? I just get the impression that we are messing around with the confidence & development of a good kid, while forgiving the ineptitude from others. I don't get it.


Sadly I agree, I have given Setanta every opportunity and had faith and belief for as long as I can, The bloke was an efffing Irish witches hat out there yeaterday.
i would not have given a flying rats clacker if he hadn't had a touch, as long as he competed against Lake and made the Bastard bloody accountable instead flying around as the spare man and picking up his 400 cheapies that he gets, Christ at least fisher would have stood a chance in taking a @#$%&! pack mark.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:20 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Hasn't Lucas been injured?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:24 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I hoped I wouldn't have to post this again a year and a half down the track but it's sad to say very little has changed. I posted this after the Sydney debacle first time around last year.

This is when the opposition attack (they are the red dots)

Image

Notice how all of our players (blue dots) have pushed so far back into defence...we have left two thirds of the ground open. Pushed a load of numbers back but left 4-5 opposition players free in the middle of the ground.

They move the ball up to the wing/half forward...our players continue to push back into defence. The oppositions best ball users then get the ball around 60m out from goal. We have flooded enormously however the opposition are still able to find someone in a position where the shot on goal is relatively straightforward.

To me it demonstrates an inability to flood - it's no good actually pushing numbers back if you aren't going to guard the space that the dangerous forward will run in to. Instead of defending we just spectate. This comment from Carrots sums it up.

Quote:
“Having said that, when we lose the ball we need to find a way to win it back and we didn’t do that well enough either.”


The second aspect of it is why do we actually flood in the first place - surely you'd rather try to win the ball back further up the ground then win it back deep in defence. We can't win it back because we don't actually push players up the ground to form a zone and force the opposition to bomb it long. How rare is it that we force the opposition to kick it long down the line? They're always able to hit up a short target because we've already conceeded two thirds of the ground and flooded back.

There is either something wrong with the coaching panel that results in our pathetic defensive setups most weeks or the coach does understand the setups required but the players are not following instructions.

Then when we attack

Image

See all our players down the line - we do it so often that it has to be an instruction from the coach. Where else can our player with the ball in the back pocket kick it to?

You rarely see our players in this situation move – they’re so static; no movement whatsoever. Because they all know what the plan is – bomb it long down the line! Seems a tactic of the Pagan era. Sure, last resort you bomb it down the line but we just do it without thinking – there are rarely leads from players on the wing who lead to the centre of the ground and drag their opponents with them – this leaves space along the wing for a half forward flanker to lead in to.

Image

The bigger blue dot has the ball at half back. Four Carlton players on the wing with their direct opponents right near him – they all lead into the centre of the ground, leaving space for the green dot (Henderson, Yarran etc) to lead into space. There is rarely smooth ball movement like this; you see plenty of other teams (including those around us such as Sydney) who do it. We just rely on the old bomb it down the line and hope to win the 50/50.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:36 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Well done on all of the work mate.......I'm not sure with the MC and Coaching panel we've got, that anything can be done ATM......these negative tactics seem to be ingrained.

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