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 Post subject: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:37 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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I have read two articles, one by Jamo on the CFC website and one of the post games ones by Ratts. I got the same message from both and Jamison said it best: "I wish I knew,”

Why don't we get a psych help to toughen us up mentally? I went to a talk by Phil Jauncey a few years back at a lunch, and he was telling the story of Brisbane just before their successful period, about how they were not able to win on the road. We all saw what he did for them in 01-04.

Have we sought help rather than just telling everyone we don't know what. It is clear we have a problem every 3 weeks and we are wasting time and talent until we tick this off.

We have money, why are we not getting someone like Phil to the club before this season is wasted.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:54 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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They need a genuine rocket about playing for each other, and playing for themselves. Too much bullshitting time is devoted to counter-acting "the hype".

@#$%&! that. It's not "their game", it's a game, and thus it's our game too. You get out there and you play for your mates and your pride because otherwise you're not worth your weight in water to the team. Feel like you're being targeted? Bad luck; overcome it and those in your way will be listless and without option. Doesn't matter if it's seemingly too much, have a dip and no one will begrudge you.

Play scared, play selfish and play stupid and you deserve a fair bit of flack, in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:24 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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koutahootarootafides wrote:
It is clear we have a problem every 3 weeks and we are wasting time and talent until we tick this off.


If you're looking purely at results, then yeah we have a problem every three weeks, but I'd suggest its more than that.

St Kilda, Geelong and Adelaide are the only games we've really been switched on for 4 quarters.
We had wins against Port, West Coast and Melbourne with lapses during the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:44 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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koutahootarootafides wrote:
I have read two articles, one by Jamo on the CFC website and one of the post games ones by Ratts. I got the same message from both and Jamison said it best: "I wish I knew,”

Why don't we get a psych help to toughen us up mentally? I went to a talk by Phil Jauncey a few years back at a lunch, and he was telling the story of Brisbane just before their successful period, about how they were not able to win on the road. We all saw what he did for them in 01-04.

Have we sought help rather than just telling everyone we don't know what. It is clear we have a problem every 3 weeks and we are wasting time and talent until we tick this off.

We have money, why are we not getting someone like Phil to the club before this season is wasted.


I think the MC have to determine quickly who has the real intense hunger to reach the ultimate success.

Talented or not, if you haven't got an obsessive desire to achieve you won't achieve at the elite level.

It's decision time for the players. Either they're in or they're out.


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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:51 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Posts: 7893
koutahootarootafides wrote:
Why don't we get a psych help to toughen us up mentally?


Who says we don't?

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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:59 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:36 pm
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Location: Melbourne
I think Ratts along with the rest of the coaching staff need to crack down on the side when we lose to teams that we should bloody well beat and give the same build up/work rate as what we would when we play sides like Geelong and the Sainters.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:01 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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ThePsychologist wrote:
koutahootarootafides wrote:
Why don't we get a psych help to toughen us up mentally?


Who says we don't?


One to toughen us up mentally?

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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:47 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I'm sure I read mention of a club sports psych in the article on Armfield last week?


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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:58 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
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I said a couple pre seasons ago and will say it again. WE NEED TO SEND OUR PLAYERS TO BOOTCAMP!

Some players are selfish and don't have the hunger for the contest and have been like that for years, I know people will shout me down, but it's the price you pay for tanking.

All is not lost however, I think that a boot camp where if a player falls behind or doesn't help out a mate, then the whole group is punished (push-ups, laps, chin-ups etc) will help instill some hardness and improve decision making when they are fatigued. Obviously we can't do it during the season, but post season I would love to see our guys do a real boot camp, maybe even get the army involved (they want some exposure in AFL) and have a real crack at it.


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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:45 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Steve_C7 wrote:
I said a couple pre seasons ago and will say it again. WE NEED TO SEND OUR PLAYERS TO BOOTCAMP!

Some players are selfish and don't have the hunger for the contest and have been like that for years, I know people will shout me down, but it's the price you pay for tanking.

All is not lost however, I think that a boot camp where if a player falls behind or doesn't help out a mate, then the whole group is punished (push-ups, laps, chin-ups etc) will help instill some hardness and improve decision making when they are fatigued. Obviously we can't do it during the season, but post season I would love to see our guys do a real boot camp, maybe even get the army involved (they want some exposure in AFL) and have a real crack at it.

We've done that for the last two pre-seasons...

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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:48 pm 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 184
trek Kokoda


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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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aido wrote:
trek Kokoda


then talk about it for 10 years :banghead:

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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:37 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Location: Melbourne
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
aido wrote:
trek Kokoda


then talk about it for 10 years :banghead:


and design a shit jumper to commemorate it


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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:40 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm
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John Longley (Luc's Uncle) who was a crew member of the 1983 America's Cup win tells a great story of how John Bertrand debated for months with Alan Bond about hiring a sports psychologist to work with the crew. Bertrand had one man in mind and being an an AFL nut was aware of the work Laurie Hayden had done with Carlton in 1981-82. Finally, Bond relented, Hayden took a leave of absence from Carlton, worked wonders with the crew and instilled a tough 'take no prisoners' attitude into Skipper Bertrand.

No more was this evident than on the day before the last race as the crew went for their usual training run.

This time Bertrand instructed that they ran in the opposite direction, spooking some of the traditionally superstitious sailors. Bertrand led them directly to the Americans' crew house.

They knew they were fitter, but there were still lingering doubts in their heads...seeing the Americans over the fence doing limp-wristed sit-ups and star jumps, the crew thought Bertrand had merely wanted them to see the opposition workout to send the message home, however were shocked when Bertrand said: 'Jump the fence, pick your opposite number and drop them.' There was no yelling or screaming; the Aussies jumped the fence, dropped them hard and kept running.

They had the psychological edge. The rest is history.

For what it's worth, the club does employ a psychologist.


Last edited by DocSherrin III on Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:47 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
jimmae wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
I said a couple pre seasons ago and will say it again. WE NEED TO SEND OUR PLAYERS TO BOOTCAMP!

Some players are selfish and don't have the hunger for the contest and have been like that for years, I know people will shout me down, but it's the price you pay for tanking.

All is not lost however, I think that a boot camp where if a player falls behind or doesn't help out a mate, then the whole group is punished (push-ups, laps, chin-ups etc) will help instill some hardness and improve decision making when they are fatigued. Obviously we can't do it during the season, but post season I would love to see our guys do a real boot camp, maybe even get the army involved (they want some exposure in AFL) and have a real crack at it.


We've done that for the last two pre-seasons...


We've trained with the army for the last 2 years :eek: :confused:


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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:18 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:32 pm
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Location: Back in reality
Steve_C7 wrote:
jimmae wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
I said a couple pre seasons ago and will say it again. WE NEED TO SEND OUR PLAYERS TO BOOTCAMP!

Some players are selfish and don't have the hunger for the contest and have been like that for years, I know people will shout me down, but it's the price you pay for tanking.

All is not lost however, I think that a boot camp where if a player falls behind or doesn't help out a mate, then the whole group is punished (push-ups, laps, chin-ups etc) will help instill some hardness and improve decision making when they are fatigued. Obviously we can't do it during the season, but post season I would love to see our guys do a real boot camp, maybe even get the army involved (they want some exposure in AFL) and have a real crack at it.


We've done that for the last two pre-seasons...


We've trained with the army for the last 2 years :eek: :confused:

No, but you didn't specify that. There was definitely an ex-military flavour about one of them. The other had some punishing bike work. Then there was the boys who had the boxing workouts.

They get punished pretty good in the pre-season, I'd suggest the message isn't being delivered elsewhere or being reinforced.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:40 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
John Longley (Luc's Uncle) who was a crew member of the 1983 America's Cup win tells a great story of how John Bertrand debated for months with Alan Bond about hiring a sports psychologist to work with the crew. Bertrand had one man in mind and being an an AFL nut was aware of the work Laurie Hayden had done with Carlton in 1981-82. Finally, Bond relented, Hayden took a leave of absence from Carlton, worked wonders with the crew and instilled a tough 'take no prisoners' attitude into Skipper Bertrand.

No more was this evident than on the day before the last race as the crew went for their usual training run.

This time Bertrand instructed that they ran in the opposite direction, spooking some of the traditionally superstitious sailors. Bertrand led them directly to the Americans' crew house.

They knew they were fitter, but there were still lingering doubts in their heads...seeing the Americans over the fence doing limp-wristed sit-ups and star jumps, the crew thought Bertrand had merely wanted them to see the opposition workout to send the message home, however were shocked when Bertrand said: 'Jump the fence, pick your opposite number and drop them.' There was no yelling or screaming; the Aussies jumped the fence, dropped them hard and kept running.

They had the psychological edge. The rest is history.

For what it's worth, the club does employ a psychologist.


Great story Doc. Bertrand's autobiography, Born to Win, is still one of my favourite books, and in fact when I think about it, some of the things I read in it set me on a life-long path. Highly recommend it.

One of the things that Hayden did with the crew was got them to train in the boat with a tape recording of American sailor voices behind them. The idea was that the Australian's had never led the Americans in a race, and so didn't know how it would feel to have the pressure of an American boat / crew up their arses, and whether it would cause the Australians to panic, or make wrong decisions.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:50 am 
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Robert Walls
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Up and coming sides (like ours) often take a while to work out how to grind out a win. We managed it against Melbourne because Judd knows what to do, but we weren't good enough to do it against North. In the end, I thought we were like a car stuck in sand against North, you could see us spinning our tyres repeatedly but we just couldn't manage to get ourselves out of it. Until Harvey kicked the goal, we were really and truly just trying to make something work.

This is where Friday night was important for us, because the players get that one step closer to being able to figure out what we need to do to grind out a win. Hird mentioned this On the Couch last night, that as you get to be a better side you figure out exactly what is required to consistently put the opposition away (even when the opposition is on song and they are well prepared for you). We'll get there. If it was 2011 and we were dropping games like this in the second half of the season then I'd be worried. But for the moment, you've just got to look at games like Friday night as a vital step in the development of the team. In the words of Denis - 'they'll learn from that' :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:10 am 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:04 pm
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Not enough determination as a mental attribute in the playing group.

It's not something that you can teach...Judd, Simmo & Murph have lots of it.

Determination to win when the chips are down goes a long way. Need to recruit very carefully over the next two years.


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 Post subject: Re: Mental Training
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:05 am 
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Geoff Southby
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What happened to Leading Teams helping players take responsibility for their actions.... Looks like there's still a bit too much down hill skiing at Visy Park for my liking...

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