That's one of the most negative and nasty spin/hatchet jobs on a player I've seen.

Pretty sad really.

I can't believe you've dropped your man Browne. Why?
Are you now convinced that Armfield is a better option than Browne?
What about the argument that Browne is not quite AFL ready? Convinced?
I know it took a year before many of their fans realised that it was over with Wiggins and Fisher.
Now the next challenge is to highlight the over rating of Hadley and Brock as the future?

I am a Hadley fan, but I know his shortfalls, and we have to improve on what we have for that position.
There's more to it than history and stats....there's speed too. I've debated with jimmae for the past week where he's in the Brock corner and I'm in the Hadley cormner. I like what they both can bring to the team, and Hadley's stats were good last night, but I thought I'd take a closer look at what jimmae has been spruiking. Whilst I think jimmae is a tad hard on Hadley, in gact bias against him, I can see what is missing: it's that part we expect from an in and under player. Refer to Diesel, Ratten and Brown. Brock and Hadley are not those blokes. Plus I'd like to add more pace where we can.

I have made the same changes on my mock line up, but I'm assuming Grigg will have 2 good games in a row where his disposal has shown improvement and pick him ahead of Brock and Hadley, coz I think Grigg is genuinely faster and nastier; just his disposal by hand and foot needs some improvement. Don't worry, I still have Hadley ahead of Brock on form.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Listening to Ratts this morning on SEn..the only reason McLean didn't play was that he was in bed with food poisoning for 3 days.
Apart from that,he had been ready to go.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

Geez...I just read this. I agree jimmae can be damning when he wants to when judging Hadley.
I just wish he'd apply the same discrimination to Brock because if we are going to get that nit picky, then Brocky is no where near the mark I want him to be for the role jimmae has him earmarked for.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Ask any player who is on the list and playing....they're all ready to go.

And Brock's selection is based on his form against the GC in the VFL......the kids.
I'm convinced Brock's da man....when Ratts does select him on form.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

The overuse of adjectives in Jimmaes post suggests a fair degree of hollowness in his 'theory'.

Each to their own though I suppose.

@ bondiblue.

As you elluded to I have been a fan of Browne's and was very happy when we drafted him. The fact is he has been average the past two weeks. What has me disappointed me more than anything has been his lack of effort in putting his head over the ball. He just looks like he is really lacking confidence and doesnt understand his role.

I personally believe he is being played out of position and is lost. He should of been put on Thomas last night as he has the agility and is just as good in the air and it would of given him a job to concentrate on and released Russell. Back Pocket is where he made his name as a junior and I hope he gets given a decent run there otherwise he could be in trouble by year's end.

As for Grigg, his kicking has improved this year and has played some good games. He is hard at it and a ball winner. I would have him in the side before several others.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

I was mucking around psych. Just remembered the Armfield vs Browne debates with you and Browne fans...and the Wiggins and Fisher debates. Now it's the McLean debate.

Look you could be right about Browne. I think he's gone backwards in a big way since his first year. I too was excited with him on the list when we got him, just the Armfield comparisons imo were a bit far fetched; different players.

The pulling out of a contest...3 times....was the straw.....mate he's really [REDACTED] up, and that is not Browne from 2 years ago....but it's obviously Browney today. Piss weak and disappointing to say the least.

I think after last night's performance Browne is in trouble.

Grigg's disposal from what I saw early this year at training and the last 2 years was not AFL level and a liability if allowed to dispose of the ball by hand and foot. Until he's got that right I think he's on the outer. If he can get that right he may stay on the list and pass McLean and Hadley.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

You are an absolute master of sweeping statements. You cast aspersion over everything, without actually adding a tangible rebuttal. Address something specific or post nothing at all, because the written equivalent of rolling your eyes is a waste of everyone's time, and directly undermines your argument against me.

There's no vitriol directed at Hadley as a person, I am purely lamenting that this job in our team is being done so poorly. Brock started out doing it very well in the pre-season in spurts, at the start of the season, and when Judd came back into the team, then got injured. Simply because I round out the general view rather than re-hash preceding arguments, I'm labelled biased or contrarian. Skim read less and comment more please.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

What's to rebutt, Jimmae?

We both provided stats which are fact.
You then, for whatever reason, decided to add your own opinionated spin & colourful adjectives in an attempt to distort the stats.
It's a free country, good luck to you mate.

Hads is not the messiah, never said he was. His stats do prove though that he was one of our better contibutors last night.

Whatever you like, but pick something and elaborate.


You provided very basic stats, I then expanded upon these. Colourful adjectives? Specify. I don't feel as though my language distorted anything, it did however convey my disappointment.


His stats prove that he was the 4th best for us in contested work, and equal 5th in terms of disposals. For a bloke who I personally watched get several direct taps, that is poor. Whether I call it unequivocally poor, piss poor or damn poor merely reflect my personal view of the facts presented.

You are critiquing me without seemingly much of an idea as to what you're critiquing, which is why you keep your posts short, and your views broad. This is all fairly anonymous and you still can't produce a worthwhile opinion when asked.

I'm sure you have one, whether I agree with it or not, but it's not forthcoming.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Apparently we are going to be playing Fremantle next week. D'ya reckon we can win?

Yes, but it's going to have to be a lift from about a month's worth of form.

Sandilands is the greatest concern, but a close second is how easily we get drawn into Freo's roll back, or as I call it, 3/4 zone. Their run and carry is impressive, but it also relies upon space, slick ball movement and the contested work of others. Etihad's conditions at present work to our advantage in the former categories.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Trying to think which of our 4 has the best chance of breaking even with him. 123kg ... where's Brock Lesnar when you need him. Then there's his height.

Hammer might have the best chance of counteracting his height with that leap he has. Could then expose him around the ground.

Think Jacobs will really struggle against Sandilands.

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"It was like calling your ex girlfriend after a night on the booze, just a really bad decision".

I agree to an extent, but a better plan may be to land on him, in which case Jacobs may have a slight advantage. It'll take some fantastically timed early jumps however, or we'll just concede a bunch of silly free kicks.

Perhaps bringing Walker into the midfield for this game to compete as third man at stoppages would be worth consideration for the MC. I wouldn't be against playing Jacobs & Hampson, and resting Kreuzer, if he is physically off the boil.

Maybe the Hampson for Jacobs plan is better; it presents as a lesser risk for a marginally lessened reward.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

To provide a bit of a comparison (using afl website stats) because it's ridiculous to present one player's stats without reference to the rest of the team.

In terms of 1%ers - team highest was 8 (Jamo), next highest was 3 (five players), 4 players had 2, 7 had 1, 5 had 0. Hads in the bottom half but by no means alone. Also, he's not a spoiler so doesn't tend to get the more obvious 1%ers.

In terms of clearances - Gibbs 9, Hadley 6, Judd and Simmo 5, Scotland and Murph 4

In terms of efficiency - Hadley at 80% puts him in the top half, plenty of guys in the 60s - Simmo at 61, Army 69 - Waite the worst with 56.

In terms of tackles - Hads and Jacobs top the count with 7 each - I'd point out Gibbs and Judd with 1 each as notable point of comparison - Murph had 4. Simmo and Kreuzer 6.

So I'd say he's performed very well in terms of two KPIs for his position (tackles, clearances), his disposal was fine and he was below par in terms of 1%ers. I don't see the reason for the attack.

To me, picking out a midfielder in a game where we actually beat them in the clearances 47-27 and shut down their no.1 midfielder is just plain strange. It was a defensive nightmare and an attacking horror show.

My point was that this was down when it should have been up at about 2 or 3 at least, and the same can be said for 4 or 5 more midfielders. Work for each other and you win the game, no matter the opposition.


I have a creditable stat sheet that lists Gibbs with 10, Judd with 8, Simmo with 7, Hadley 6. Scotland had 3 and Murphy 2 according to the same sheet.


I referred to his handball efficiency only. I have him at 85% efficiency overall, which means he sunk all of his kicks, unsure on the long kick data for him, but I don't remember seeing one all night (and given he didn't have a single I50 or D50 to his name, I'd say he probably didn't). Forwards are always going to have the worst kicking efficiency; chopped off leads, and behinds count as ineffective kicks.


Yep that sounds about right.


On your stats, not really no.


The efficiency data lies in this instance and this stat perhaps needs an overhaul in definition. Our midfield had a case of the fumbles and never addressed it with knock-ons, or releasing each other in space to deliver the ball better. With a tighter definition of an effective disposal, you'd see that and the 1%er data lining up nicely.

Perhaps our midfielders need to learn more about work rate without the ball, how to pressure, how to make the spoil and how to put in for a shepherd or alternatively present a visible and clear option to the guy in possession. They are all so convinced of their abilities in possession that they look to secure the ball no matter the situation before making their next move. Lesser players know they should look to knock the ball on when they have an opponent baring down; our blokes don't.

This is moving away from my point on Hadley anyway: he gets the opportunity to win a lot of inside ball, and in my opinion doesn't do enough with and without it in these situations. That's shown in the first possession stats:

Hadley - 9
Gibbs - 7
Judd - 5
Murphy - 5
Simpson - 5
Scotland - 4
Carrazzo - 3
Jacobs - 3
Robinson - 3
Houlihan - 2
Kreuzer - 1

That's not all of the first possessions in our team, but that's what I would call our midfield unit.

Let's take him out of the mix, bring in another bloke and keep working at it until we see more runs from stoppages outside of the forward line. Gibbs did it for us first attempt after finally getting released to midfield with the return of Armfield, which speaks volumes of the output we've seen from Hadley & Brock of late.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Pretty close to the mark.

I would have;

Ins: Yarran, Lucas, Bower, Hampson

Outs: Browne, Joseph, Robinson, Setanta

Well now that we have got our Barry Crocker of a game out of the way, well, of course
we will come and pants the Dockers wont we ?

My thoughts on some of the earlier comments in this thread.....
People are always talking up Hampson, has he ever taken one contested
mark at AFL level ? I too have great hopes for him, but he sure aint the Messiah !

Mr Browne, that was pitiful, and may have just ended your future aspirations.

Prepared to cut Hadley some slack.....but.... ffs you are not a 2nd year player either !

Setanta.....reckon if you dont fire this week, then the red jumper will be yours for a while.

Aaron Joseph, umm, youre not quite Gazza yet, so stick to what won you a spot in the side.
Man's gotta know his limitations !!

And speaking of often quoted movie lines...... heres one just for Ratts.....
"What we got here is a failure to communicate"
For frigs sake fire some of these pussies up !!!

Ins Bower (desperately needed), Yarran (a must also), Grigg (insurance)
Outs Browne, 2 other spuds (take your pick) AND a large slice of figjam.

Additional in...... 22 heads with the INTENSITY switch switched to the ON position !!

Go ahead, pot away.......

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I wore number 25 on the back of my jumper 40 years ago..... yes, pre Marchesani !!

I agree with you Jimmae - stats don't tell the full story and Hadley's "clearances" aren't particularly effective. Seldom is first to the ball hence the high tackle count.

My changes this week would be:

Definite Out
- Joseph
- Browne
- Hadley
- Thornton
- Jacobs (bit stiff but Hampson offers more)
Possible Out
- O'Hailpin (maybe replace with Hendo)
- Robinson (plenty of grunt back lacking elsewhere)

Definite In
- Lucas
- Yarran
- Hampson
- Bower
- Grigg
Possible In
- McLean
- Henderson

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There is no footy god