I think our mental strength or lack of it has a lot to do with our performances over the last year or two.

If we are underdogs and are seen as no chance of winning we put in a pretty good effort. Two wins over the Filth and a win v's the Cats are two examples.

A more complex example is the final v's the Lions. We went over there as underdogs and performed well. Our confidence was rocked when they started to come back and we went to water.

Anytime we go into a match as favorites. We struggle (unless the opposition is so poor we cant lose. eg Richmond).

Our self belief is woeful. This translates to unsure decision making, inconsistant skills. We've all seen players on our list execute good skill level at one time or another. So they can do it!

Whenever I see the ball held aloft in our back line followed by a chip kick across the face of goal. A score to the opposition nearly always results in the next three minutes. We are not assured of ourselves and probably shouldn't do it until we are.

I don't think we came blame inexpirience either. It's not just our new players making the mistakes.

I don't know how to fix it, I'm not a physcologist but until it is fixed our team performances will continue to suffer.

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I support the Navy Blues whatever happens!

Very good post and I agree 100%. I actually think it's arguably the biggest problem afflicting this Club at the moment, moreso than perceived or actual deficiencies in players' skills, game-plans etc.

We just don't bring a consistent intensity when playing in games in which we are expected, both internally and externally, to win. It's like the players think that they can just cruise through and their natural ability will win the match. Often I get the feeling that the opposition are simply more desperate than us. I was worried that this would again be the case on Saturday night and was proven correct.

We compete well with the better sides because we know that a high intensity and strong effort is not negotiable - if we don't come to play then we know that we have no chance of winning. It's the same when we fall several goals behind in games - it's as if we require some sort of 'challenge' or adversity before we decide that we need to give absolutely everything. But we appear to drop off against the sides ranked similarly or beneath us.

We aren't a bad side but this is a major worry. I am not sure either how this can be remedied but I think without some sort of attitudinal readjustment then we will never reach our potential.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

I think the more appropriate way to describe this is the opposition are more committed to the decisions they make on-field. Desperation can regularly breed stupid play, and we saw that in our mob the other night.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

and add to all of that, (IMO anyway) that there's a massive correlation between skill execution and confidence.

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"I had to eat"

Massive is not the word but you hit the nail on the head.

As for mental strength. It is extremely fragile, especially between the ages of 17-21 for a developing elite footballer. What happens to a player between those years will have an infinite effect on their levels of progress and their ability to function under pressure individually whilst adhering to a team environment.

I have seen signs this year in terms of communication, reactive processes and body language that worry me greatly!

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

It's the price you pay for tanking.

Spot on Jimmae. I mentioned elsewhere the last four teams I have seen before Saturday were Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood and St Kilda. Every one of those four teams were 100% committed to their game plan (dare I say that), and each other. They went in knowing their team mates would be equally committed.

I don't sense that with our bunch at all.

It's a massive part of being successful and it's at the core of just about everything a footballer has to do.

One important facet of mental strength is the sacrificial act when knowing you will get physically hurt in a contest.

Can anyone name 5 occasions in the last couple of years when a Carlton player has committed themselves to a sacrificial act for the team and been absolutely polaxed?

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect a team of Kenny Hunters, but the ultimate commitment of fully putting your body on the line knowing you'll get hurt makes a massive statement to the opposition.


Of course the broad meaning of mental strength is a committment to your team mates to do the one percenters and rising to the occasion when challenged by your opponents.

Its a by product of lack of leadership and a developing side. This tough run we are about to face will hopefully make this group, as they will learn they can never take anything for granted ever again.

I realise most people on this board don't think much of Grant Thomas, but on footy classified when asked whether there's reason for concern at Carlton, he said that there definitely is and that it is mainly down to a real lack of leadership off field and on.

Unfortunately, I find it hard to argue against Grant's point.

Let's hope Leading Teams can really help in this area. By God, we need it.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that; a lack of self-belief is equally plausible.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Nah, can't have this argument.

Our wins v Lions @ Gabba past few years have been absolutely heroic, same as our elim final effort when lack of manpower (no Jamo, Bower on one leg) bought us undone in the last qtr.

What about the Port Adel win a few years ago??? Freo win @ Subi, great last qtr effort.

I'm sorry, not many teams have the mental strength to win away @ AAMI or Gabba being circa 5 goals down at 3/4 time!!! We were also smashed by Aints in first 1/4 last yr (5 goals to NIL), yet could have won the game in the end. Anyone notice Roos making a big comeback a few weeks ago after a similar start?

Dawks lost to Tiges in 2008, a few games later thay had another flag, FFS! A lack of mental strength from the Premiers or just lazy that day??? Me thinks the latter.

At times, we are lazy and unprofessional in our preparation and it transalates into our efforts, Sat night a real example. Coaching staff and whole club psyche needs to sharpen up to avoid instances like this. For instance, why was Ratts so defensive the other night? Mate, get on the front foot!! Gibbs negative role sums it up. Carrots on Jobe a no brainer, why did it take so long to do it?

If we are switched on 100%, we'll push the Crows to the limit and hopefully get a win.

As Luke Darcy put last night on One Week at a Time, "Natural talent can only get you so far in this game, and these days, that's not very far".
Sums it up perfectly.

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Gaga and The Hoff party hard in London

I think what you call "lack of mental strength" is a symptom not the cause of the teams problems. If you continually send the team out with a set of substandard tactics that don't work- the players get disheartened. We couldn't react to Essendons one on one gameplan by implimenting a flood or a zone.

We were constantly in a zone, or did you forget they had players sitting back on our 50 in acres of space when they had the ball.

The players just allowed themselves to be drawn by Essendon*'s run and get stuck in no man's land rather than drop back and clog space, closing for the tackle when appropriate. Had we done it right, we would have had 110 tackles instead of 80.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Great thread subject WA Blue...



I definitely agree with this, too.

However, one of the things that most disappointed me during the Essendon* game was the apparent inability or unwillingness for one (or more) of our players to provide some on field spark. I don't necessarily mean through brilliant play, but we needed someone on field to demand our players to pull their fingers out and inspire them.

Not sure if that needed to be done via an impromptu on ground pep talk, a bit of a dust up with the opposition, or simply by throwing some weight around at contests. There was no desperation, no intensity and perhaps a bit of mongrel might have woken our players from their mental slumber.

What we saw last weekend was shit. That no player was able or willing to even attempt to put things right on field is a massive concern IMO.

All we heard about prior to Murphy being drafted was what a great leader he was. Well? It's a bit rough to single Murph out, though, seeing as he had 21 mates on Saturday night.

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One on one - man for man we should have beaten them anyway. The fact we didnt tells us alot about the mental strength of the players. They were not switched on. The lack of intensity was obvious. Even the commentators were saying it felto like a pre season game.

A few year back Fev had his way with Harry Obrien and won us the game. Same game we tagged Shaw out of it. Magpies fans were calling for Malthouses head but he responded by saying the players have to learn. They have to learn how to fight back after a few goals were kicked on them. They had to learn how to deal with a tag. By moving them he would have been giving them the easy way out. Both players are far better players now than they were that day.

Ratts backed the players to beat the bombers but they failed the test.

They need to toughen up, regroup and come out and show us they are better than that.

I think it's ('it's' being self-belief, commitment) inconsistent within the team. eg - I think the composition of the leadership group is very instructive. They are the amongst the most consistent in their effort.

Mentally, the place we need to be is at the Geelong, St Kilda level (I don't ask for much, I know). That is, every week the effort and application will be consistent, and the application to tasks set for each player will be consistent. If you consider the mentally toughest teams (IMHO) in Australia over the last few years - St Kilda, Geelong, Melbourne Storm - every time you hear a member of those organisations speak they talk in terms of players focusing on their particular role in whatever targets are set which will deliver victory. I question whether our players are similarly focused.

I also don't buy the 'we're developing' line - to a degree. Young players come into mentally strong teams and execute based on a clear understanding of their role and what they need to do to successfully fulfil that role.

Clearly I am an outsider and an amateur watcher. But looking at the inconsistency in our effort and -seemingly - our application to tasks, I have to wonder whether our players have either;

a) a CLEAR understanding of what is expected of them (as individuals within the team)
b) the tools to successfully accomplish whatever those goals are

Because if they DID have a satisfactory grasp on those two points, we wouldn't have been sucked into playing Essendon*'s game on Saturday night. What I saw was a bunch of headless chooks who got lost in the game, and trying to beat Essendon* at their own game, rather than doing what they needed to do to help the team win.

Because at our skill level, if we don't at least get our players understanding clearly their specific role requirements, we are absolutely stuffed - we're not in a position to ad lib and win games the way we slaughter the ball at every opportunity.