What worries me as well, is Ratten & Co saying they are happy with our pre-season games.

How can you be? Surely the passion is there to win every game, and not just settle.

I would like Ratten to come and and see he is not happy when we lose, because we certainly are not as supporters especially with poor skills and lack of intensity.

That comment (myriad cracks) had me doubling back too...

I don't really think we have many cracks in our personnel, relative to the trajectory we are on. We are positioned towards the bottom end of the 2nd tier of teams, vying for the bottom half of the top 8... if you follow that!

Top Tier: StK, Bulldogs, Geelong, maybe Coll & Hawthorn
2nd Tier: Adelaide, Brisbane, Carlton, maybe Coll & Hawthorn.

What I am concerned about is our gameplan. There, we have cracks. Much uncertainty:
- Is Ratten's gameplan good but we are not applying it effectively or is his gameplan crap? (We will know this by the end of the year, giving us a fair bit of time to get used to playing without Fev) Remember, Lyon's gameplan was crap, as was Clarkson's and Neil Craig's. I'm not a fan of Ratten the coach but I not yet prepared to throw him out.
- Do we play Kruezer on the ball or up forward? (It seems the NAB cup has helped us decide to gear him more towards the ruck, resting forward...)
- Do we play Waite forward, back or link? (Think they will try him forward but I would prefer to see him spend a year back...)
- What is the small forward pecking order? (Betts, Yarran, Garlett)
- How do we protect and shepherd for Judd/Murph/Gibbs?
- How do we use our 'utilities' eg. Walker, Houlihan, Russell (I think Russell has settled in to backline now)

That is, these are more about putting the puzzle together and gameplan rather than 'myriad cracks'.

Additional thoughts:
- Our backs will surprise, our rucks will be competitive, our mids will win more than they lose. Forwards are a question mark but, again, this is more about strategy than personnel.
- I think Betts will add some spark to the midfield this year.
- Setanta may not be a Rolls Royce but neither is Brett Kirk. We seem to play better when the Irish is there.
- Re McLean/Hadley - not everyone needs to be fast. Williams was not fast. Hayes is not. We can kick/handball/react faster than anyone can run. Its more about how we play.

Jimmae,

My post has nothing to do with Fev. That is just a red herring you have brought into the picture to support your " rose coloured, she will be right mate mate just wait and see attitude" If things are right then put your assessment to the test. What is an acceptable this year & what year do you expect us to be a top 4 side. For what is worth, as I have said in other posts, if we miss the eight this year it is a failure & I will add to that you would expect to be top 4 by 2012. That is the sixth season after Pratt took over as for your other comments

re forwards - None of them are proven and Waite and Santi will be 30 plus by the time we are in a top 4 situation. They may not be there and will have to be replaced

Class Midfielder short. My assessment is based on the reasons we lost last years final. If I am wrong why did we go for Mclean

Backline as our strength- Potentially yes but we still lack that one big body

Flankers- we play a number of players regularly who are substandard kicks and they need to be replaced: carazzo, wiggins, Fisher. Again your comment Medium/tall is a red herring to defend your over optimistic view of things. I can't say it more bluntly other than---you are dreamin'---in la la land.

Didn't we go for McLean to replace Stevens...??

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"...that's the thing about opinion - you don't have to know anything to have one..." Andre Agassi commenting on Pat Cash 2004
"...the less you know - the more you believe..." - Bono 2006

I dunno Drewgirl.

In my mind there are the clubs that set themselves up to win the NAB Cup, and then there are the rest. The clubs that set themselves up to it this year (arguably) were St Kilda, the Dogs, and Port Adelaide. Everyone else I would say has two very major objectives in the NAB Challenge:

1: Don't get injuries
2: Rotate as many players who you think might play senior footy this year as possible

I honestly don't think winning comes into it all that much for teams that haven't set themselves to win the pre-season cup. And certainly, if you look at the pre-season results for Hawthorn, Adelaide, Brisbane, and Geelong (four teams most experts have challenging for the flag), I don't think you'll see that they are much different to our results. To take one example, the Lions beat Hawthorn the other day with a score of 50-odd points. Reading the match summary, I could almost guarantee that Voss was just trying to see how the forward line could work if Fevola and Brown were not the main targets. He wouldn't have cared if he got a win or a loss out of that, and he sure as hell wouldn't have cared that his twin targets scored one goal between them.

In so far as we got no major injuries during the pre-season, and we rotated most of our list through the four practice games, I can definitely see why Ratts said he was happy with the pre-season.

We got Lucas to replace Stevo.

Really? They are nothing alike. We went for McLean because we lack inside players and to allow Judd more freedom.

That comment (myriad cracks) had me doubling back too...

I don't really think we have many cracks in our personnel, relative to the trajectory we are on. We are positioned towards the bottom end of the 2nd tier of teams, vying for the bottom half of the top 8... if you follow that!

Top Tier: StK, Bulldogs, Geelong, maybe Coll & Hawthorn
2nd Tier: Adelaide, Brisbane, Carlton, maybe Coll & Hawthorn.

What I am concerned about is our gameplan. There, we have cracks. Much uncertainty:
- Is Ratten's gameplan good but we are not applying it effectively or is his gameplan crap? (We will know this by the end of the year, giving us a fair bit of time to get used to playing without Fev) Remember, Lyon's gameplan was crap, as was Clarkson's and Neil Craig's. I'm not a fan of Ratten the coach but I not yet prepared to throw him out.
- Do we play Kruezer on the ball or up forward? (It seems the NAB cup has helped us decide to gear him more towards the ruck, resting forward...)
- Do we play Waite forward, back or link? (Think they will try him forward but I would prefer to see him spend a year back...)
- What is the small forward pecking order? (Betts, Yarran, Garlett)
- How do we protect and shepherd for Judd/Murph/Gibbs?
- How do we use our 'utilities' eg. Walker, Houlihan, Russell (I think Russell has settled in to backline now)

That is, these are more about putting the puzzle together and gameplan rather than 'myriad cracks'.

Additional thoughts:
- Our backs will surprise, our rucks will be competitive, our mids will win more than they lose. Forwards are a question mark but, again, this is more about strategy than personnel.
- I think Betts will add some spark to the midfield this year.
- Setanta may not be a Rolls Royce but neither is Brett Kirk. We seem to play better when the Irish is there.
- Re McLean/Hadley - not everyone needs to be fast. Williams was not fast. Hayes is not. We can kick/handball/react faster than anyone can run. Its more about how we play.

I actually kind of agree with MJ.

- If we don't make the eight this year, we have gone backwards. That's just a fact.

- By 2012 our core group of talent (Murph, Gibbs, Jamo, Bower, Kruezer, Warnock, Russell, Betts etc.) will be entering their prime, so we should be there abouts (top 4). If we're not questions will be asked.

- As for the big bodied defender we're apparently lacking I disagree. Bower, Jamo and Austin are all still yet to fully fill out and besides which I think the days of gorillas in the goal square are largely over. As the Kiwi's would say, we're sweet as bro.

- There are a number of players who are still getting games who are average kicks (Carrots, Grigg, Walker, Browne, Anderson, Army, Hadley etc.). Now, I'm not saying that these players are doomed to remain average kicks, in fact Carrots and Army have shown remarkable improvement in just one season. What I am saying is the way the game is played today, you cannot carry that many players who are poor disposers of the ball by foot. From the Dogs only Cross really comes to mind and he makes up for it in winning contested possessions and from Geelong I'm struggling to think of anyone.

However, with the recruitment of Yazz, Kerr and O'Keefe it's pretty clear that the football department are aware of this problem and have tried to rectify it, we just need to be patient.

Which I guess is the main difference between myself and the chicken littles populating this site. I can see that there is a plan in place but it will take a while to come to fruition. Just like with Geelong, just like with the Bulldogs, just like with the Eagles, just like with the Saints. And if things are not going according to plan, questions will most certainly be asked and actions will be taken to remedy the problems, just like they were with all of the above mentioned teams.

But even if the worst comes to worst and we don't win a flag with this group I'll still barrack for Carlton. It's better than going for any of those other cauliflower.

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STURDYISM!!

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#DonTheStash

For those of you who do not recall the great Carlton sides of the '70s and '80s (memories ) they couldn't win a pre season game if their lives depended on it. Everyone forecast doom and gloom for the season. Then they would go out smash the oppostion and win the odd premiership.

I know the game has changed, there are questions being asked of the coach, myself included, but why don't we actually wait a few weeks into the season before pronouncing judgment on a side that hasn't even kicked a ball in anger in 2010 yet?

And after saying that, I reckon we could do with at least one or two mid sized defenders who can both run AND kick the ball to our advantage! Apart from that I reckon we are pretty right including covering Fev. Henderson will be a gun, Waite is like gaining a recruit and Setanta is Setanta.

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"Get ready, Teddy - you're on": Ron Barassi half time 1970 Grand Final

WHY DID I AWARD POW SO EARLY !!

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

There are three ways to look at the poor disposal of the ball as seen in the 2010 practice games to date:

(a) its only a practice game implying that when the pressure is more intense the skills will somehow improve
(b) the closed door training sessions are developing some new system that will not be seen until the season starts - the mystery if there is one, will be about the duration of the 1st quarter of the 1st Round. If some new system is on show, a responding move by the opposition is routine
(c) its just more of the same slow development of skills from players who have inherent weaknesses in kicking to position and to advantage especially when under direct pressure

Rather than live by hope I work on the basic idea that how you train is how you play hence I see option (c) as what will happen.

The newer recruits who have better ball disposal need to brought up to a suitable level of fitness so they can get some game time in 2010. Those who cannot kick or hand ball well under pressure need to spend time improving their skills but in a VFL environment.

My optimism for 2010 is tempered by a realisation that we probably will not score as consistently as was the case in 2009 and if we continue to gift 1 to 2 goals in getting the ball out of the defensive 50, winning games becomes just that bit harder. The Adelaide practice game is an ilustration.

We will have the 22 players to do the job each week, do the players have the capacity to demonstrate their skills at a high enough level to win at least 50% of the matches they play?

There's no doubt we have Myriad Cracks - no doubt whatsoever. Problem is, we don't know they exist. That's what the summer months are for; get everything in order and then iron out deficiencies whether that be in NAB or Challenge Cup.

I liken the Carlton situation to Van Halen...yes - you heard me - Van Halen. During the 80's Van Halen did dozens of shows every year, and at each venue, the band would show up with nine 18-wheelers full of gear. Because of the technical complexity, the band’s standard contract with venues was thick and convoluted — David Lee Roth said in his autobiography that it read "like a version of the Chinese Yellow Pages." A typical "article" in the contract might say, "There will be 15 amperage voltage sockets at 20-foot spaces, evenly, providing 19 amperes."

Van Halen buried a special clause in the middle of the contract. It was called Article 126. It read, "There will be no brown M&Ms in the backstage area, upon pain of forfeiture of the show, with full compensation." So when Roth would arrive at a new venue, he’d walk backstage and glance at the M&M bowl. If he saw a brown M&M, he’d demand a line check of the entire production. "Guaranteed you’re going to arrive at a technical error," he wrote. "They didn’t read the contract…. Sometimes it would threaten to just destroy the whole show."

In other words, Roth was no diva. He was an operations expert.

At Carlton, I don't think we have an operations expert. I don't for a minute question Ratten and Riley's capabilities to understand the modern game and the modern footballer. However I think they're far to reactive - not proactive. If they were operations experts, they'd know pretty quickly how to move the chess pieces around to gain the upper hand. Like a lot of the boys on the list - the coaches are perhaps another year away from figuring out what Carlton's brown M&M is.

I think we need to make the 8 this year, yes. We need to push for top 4 inside three seasons, which meets up with your expectations exactly.


Both of them scored at a goal a game last year, neither playing more than half the season. I think 30 goals for Setanta and 40 - 50 for Waite is entirely achievable. On-going, both will be approaching 30 at the start of the 2012 season.


Relying on Hadley and Judd for clearance work hurt us last year because we needed Judd's run & Hadley only managed 11 games. McLean was recruited to aid that role. All of our new primary list additions are noted for their high levels of endurance (Lucas & Davies ran 14+ beep tests, Kerr won our last time trial, McLean finished high in both).

A big issue in our final was running out of puff in the last through midfield because we flogged Houlihan, Stevens, Judd & Scotland. The three that remain are fitter this year, and their young team mates are up a notch as far as metrics go.


Name me an opposition backman you are using as a yardstick so we can compare this better.


If Fisher & Wiggins play more than 10 games between them this year I will be surprised, barring any unforeseen circumstances of course. Carrazzo is an accomplished player who showed a marked improvement in his disposal last season. I will wait until at least 1 game of proper football before I gauge any loss or gain in that area. I assume you also mean Walker, Armfield and the like and while I agree with you, Walker's run & versatility as well as Armfield's run & defensive application outweigh the negative their disposal can provide under pressure. It's still clearly something they work hard on, particularly Armfield.

Any other individuals you care to name?


I'm not in la-la land. We could have been pushing top 4 this year and now we're not, but we're not shot just yet. Hasn't even been a minute of the season played and everything but our practice match form indicates we're ready for a decent year. Nothing earth shattering, but there's plenty of teams behind us in what is recognised as an even competition.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Makes sense. Not that I ever liked Van Halen or David Lee Roth. And did you really read his autobiography?

Should have guzumped Port and snapped up Dean "the junkyard dog" Laidley when he and the kangas parted ways last year. No better tactician in the game.

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"Get ready, Teddy - you're on": Ron Barassi half time 1970 Grand Final

As an adjunct to Teddys post -we didnt win practice matches when we were bad either -I remember going to PP for a practice match against Port about 5 years ago and many on this site were there and we got beaten by over 100 points -that performance was something to worry about given it was a couple of weeks before the season proper-it was below vfl standard -Port were good but we were woeful - left that day after taking two young dardews but couldnt find a positive anywhere -felt almost as bad as black friday when the AFL tried to destroy us - the performances so far this pre-season arent anything to worry about- not great barnstorming wins but not great big irredeemable losses either

I remember those days

We will be BETTER!

FEA...we are Carlton!

Gain Warnock,Waite, Henderson.......extra year in Murph, Gibbs, Krueze, Joseph, Robbo.......lose Fev. Stiff shit!
Carlo's will cause some damage........have some faith

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I see you watching me watching you.

Myriad cracks, no.

Less cracks than the really crap teams.
About the same amount of cracks as the middle-rung teams.
More cracks than the best teams (who also have cracks).

Pretty stupid comment from a journalist based on the available evidence at this time of the year.

Well........................depends which way you look at it.

Saw the 2 NAB games at PP and the intra club. Cant say they filled me with any great confidence and after much backing of Ratts for the past 2 years......I'm slowly starting to turn against him. Beggers belief that we cant resolve our kick ins or defend them the other way

But then, ...............sure we lost Fev and Stevo( who did bugger all toward the latter years of his career ), but gained ..Warnock, who'll be handy, Brock ( although he's been sh1thouse so far ), Hendo ( who's there abouts ) and we get back a fit Jamo, Bower( who we lost late last year ), and Waite .....................BUT most of all we have the natural maturity of the bulk of our list by another year.

Despite what i've seen so far this year, I simply refuse to accept a season with less than what we achieved last year. Regardless of FEV and Stevo, the rest should make up for it.

I did say should.

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Time for talk is over. Time to show 'em what we're made of !