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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:36 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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club29 wrote:
Once the crows had there full ground zone set. The blues were obviously instucted to hold the ball at all costs and if we had it at halfway we would take it all the way back to chb and beyond to get there zone to move further up the ground to great more space for us to work with. I saw that as a tactic that was good and working. The carlton crowd were hating it. A lot of times it didnt work because someone stuffed up a pass. Sometimes the players appeared to succumb to the crowds moans and kick to a contest only to have it be a 3 on one or worse. The ball rebounds and they score.


Good to see we're trying something.

Anyone who boos their team for kicking backwards, and holding on to the ball, doesn't understand modern footy. Its a direct reponse to flooding, which is the biggest evil in the game.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:39 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Were 4 points on offer?
STIFF SHIT, WHO CARES!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:40 pm 
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Agree TBB and Club

Did these supporters want us to bomb the ball to Scott Stevens and Shaun McKernan?

Bombing it in is exactly what the opposition want...maintain possession until an option opens up. Unfortunately for us the option does appear occassionally however the disposal isn't good enough to hit the target.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:43 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:45 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

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got to princes park at half time, couldn't get away from work early enough ...

hard to get an overall feel of the game, so for what it's worth this is based on what i saw:

- betts is buzzing and seems capable of playing midfield. i pray he holds up.
- robinson is in good nick and looks ready to take his game to the next level. just love the way he tries to make something happen with each possession
- pace is an issue. i am wondering whether we may be better off going smaller in the front and back 50 to inject some pace into the side which in turn can possibly create some additional referred pressure. i left the game tonight wondering whether we should adopt the bulldogs blueprint and have only one tall in F50 (eg setanta) with perhaps the ruckman ghosting forward to create a mis-match.
- self-belief is an issue. i don't see our guys spread from a contest like the well-drilled teams do. too many blues players stationary from set-plays almost in the belief that there's little point rolling the dice cos we aint gonna get it. this is mainly why i've become a big wrap for robbo, he has no fear.
- grigg can get his hands on the pill but he can't kick, he just can't kick ... dunno what else to say ...
- murphy is sooo rusty, perhaps should be played off the bench in round 1
- anderson is still struggling but may benefit from a russell style vote of confidence from the MC
- kruezer will be awesome once he matures and the team becomes well-drilled
- yarran is super silky. didn't waste a possie in the half i say and again seemed very much a thinking footballer
- walks attacked a couple of stoppages hard
- russell played a slashing last qtr
- hendo is 12 months away, but the signs are promising

my biggest bug-bear though is this ... i wanna be able to use the terms "well drilled", "organised", "carlton" in the same sentence! i'll even take a 11-22 scoreline each week if we are boringly well-drilled. maybe it's just me but the players actions don't suggest to me that they're on the same page or well drilled.

we definitely lack an architect in the defensive 50, and that's where so many team now generate F50 plays. i am worried we're too tall down back and perhaps we need to have someone like gibbs playing that sweeper role and becoming a play-maker down back. we could have a F50 play-maker too (eg murphy) and create a diamond midfield formation ...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:58 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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maxyblue wrote:

my biggest bug-bear though is this ... i wanna be able to use the terms "well drilled", "organised", "carlton" in the same sentence!


Was only yesterday that I said to someone 'The safecrackers of the Carlton crew - well...drilled their way into the organised crime scene of Melbourne


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:05 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Very intense game of football played by the Crows early on, with a few individuals obviously putting up their hands for selection. Didn't seem to be as much fire from our boys, but physically they seemed to get better as the game wore on. I suspect our training load is still up a bit higher than it will be through the regular season and some are struggling with this, but medium and long passing by foot was definitely up a notch on previous practice matches.

Short passing was utterly woeful, but a lack of work rate when in possession helped explain most of these situations. Teams who play like Essendon* and Freo will maul us if we play such stagnant football through the middle.

The match came down to work-rate for both sides, and concentration for our boys. So many silly free kicks conceded by daft efforts at HB or slightly off-cue passes towards HF. A lot of frees again not paid to us, which has been a consistent theme all pre-season.

Hadley was somewhat missed out there and we appear to have settled on Grigg as Judd's replacement for round 1. Grigg was actually more impressive, although seems to have lost his hunger to have a ping when inside 50. There were probably a handful of times where I was left wondering why a player didn't just have a shot at goal rather than trying to square it up or wait for something to open up; we lack confidence in taking shots from 50.

Onto the players:

Walker - solid game mostly in midfield, clean with the ball and did plenty of team things (shepherds, chasing, etc). Would have liked to have seen him feature more up forward as he would provide a difficult match-up due to his athleticism.

Russell - extremely solid in defence and cut off a lot of kicks. Forced his way into the play in the last and created some extra drive which further propelled our comeback. Looks set for a good year. He and Bower love the corridor, and I resultantly love them.

Murphy - still blowing out the cobwebs. Got forward of the play with regularity and had a role at times on half-forward. Looks his composed self when in possession but touch isn't quite there yet. Will play round 1 but may not hit his straps for another round or so. Physically fine.

Gibbs - believe the 5AA commentators: he had a great game in the middle, regularly forcing turnovers and weaving his way through traffic. Seemed to be lighter on his feet in the second half and played with a reasonable burst of acceleration. Skills nearing top gear and was delivering well into the forward line. Set for a good year.

Judd - was Judd, although did get burned by his tag a few times when Adelaide had the ball. More than made up for it, but it's something he should pay more attention against quality direct opponents (Adelaide & Sydney in particular work him over in this regard).

Simpson - was Simmo, still working out a few kinks, and one of many of our midfield who insist on taking full possession of the ball before disposing despite the utter futility of it. If a bloke is clearly wrapping you up for the tackle, why wouldn't you knock on to your mate right next to you and lay in a shepherd. Frustrated me no end last season as it seems everyone wants the glory in this situation and backs themselves instead of playing the percentages. Straightened up our midfield play at times and always doubled up after feeding the ball off.

McLean - thought he was impressive outside of the clearances, and seemed to be doing some good work in the thick of it. Like many in our side he seems to have a touch of the fumbles at times but presented himself regularly in space through his superior read of the play and that gave him time to distribute the ball well. Looks like he's wearing concrete boots half the time and seems to have lost a yard from his early days at Melbourne. Despite this, I still feel he gets to more contests and makes more plays on the ball and the ball carrier than a Bentick-type did. Probably applies more pressure than Hadley to be honest, which would explain his omission.

Kreuzer - looked in good touch a lot of the time, although fluffed a few kicks at full pace. Combined with Warnock to control the ruck and resultantly the centre square, and linked beautifully through midfield. Virtually no time spent in a forward role, and it benefited him immensely.

Warnock - when in the ruck he was great and showed some fantastic bursts of speed to spread to present an option, and pushed back to nullify Tippet in many a contest. Some great spoils in midfield as well, including a cracker in I think the last quarter. Pushed forward to good effect and will complement Kreuzer's playing style extremely well from a tactical perspective.

Robinson - really impressed me today because he actually found another gear; looks like the pre-season work was slowing him down a cog. The problem was that while the burst came back, so did the glory boy antics. Took a great mark to force a turnover at one point, then blindly handballed just after he landed, resulting in a completely stupid turnover. Seems to find a way to be a liability one way or another, and lacks the discipline to play midfield at present. Does provide a spark up forward but needs to make better decisions in general play.

Yarran - class. Couldn't believe the Bronx cheers he was receiving when he successfully held possession on his own for about 30 seconds at half-back (in the last I believe). Short of pushing forward himself, not sure what more you can ask of a second year player; evaded about 4 blokes in that piece of play. Pushed up the ground and wasn't as much of a scoring threat but know he has that in him from previous viewings, and was providing more of a creative spark in the last. Should play round 1.

Grigg - another who surprised me today with a turn of pace, which should help cover for his lack of defensive nous. Was also pleased to see his disposal showing signs of hitting targets, but this appeared to be at the expense of a willingness to have a shot at goal, which was probably the best decision when he had the ball about 40-45 m out in the third. Wouldn't be completely adverse to see him in the side on the back of his performance.

Setanta - played a good role up forward and would be our number 1 option at CHF and number 2 at FF. Presents really well although would have trouble in a pack situation, and is a risk when he feels he has to stab at the ball as his disposal can be quite wayward. Also stabbed at a shot at goal in the first quarter and missed badly from 20 m out. Provides good pressure and remains in the hunt when the ball hits the deck. Set to provide the same form we saw from him at CHF last year.

Bower - possibly best on ground. Got a chance to play more of a floating role than dealing with a direct opponent and relished the opportunity to rebound, punishing Adelaide with both his runs and his disposal. He was extremely clean by foot due in no small part by remaining balanced as he disposed, and got a little angry at himself and his kick at one point when he distributed sideways to Jamison because he was off-balance when he executed. Clearly it's something he's been made aware of and is working diligently on, for which I am glad. Might get an AA nod if he gets more opportunities to play in a role like today's.

Betts - anticipate him changing his name to 'Eddie Everywhere' by deed poll. Completely accurate description of his game; his fitness is at another level and the forward line could easily transition from the Fev show to the Eddie show if he has his way. Played more like Simmo than Simmo at times by doubling up his own efforts in midfield. Regularly disrupted Adelaide's ball movement despite his diminutive stature. Seems to be getting a bum wrap in the media on account of receiving receiving scant praise, because he is definitely set for a big year.

Henderson - continued to present well and at times was pushing all the way up to CHB to create issues for Adelaide's forward entires. Created a goal there through a magnificent smother. Definitely came in third behind Waite & Setanta in the key forward role and despite a fluffed mark on the lead at one point the only thing stopping him from going up a level is self-confidence IMO. Not enough fire in his game just yet. Like Setanta, not strong enough to impose in a pack situation regularly but that will come with time. Should play round 1.

Anderson - inconsistent game from him, does the team things but the minute he tries to show some flash, it all goes horribly wrong. Our desperation for another small/medium defender to play in Armfield's absence has us turning to Ando when he probably isn't up to it. Needs to work more on what he does with possession of the ball because he has the physical attributes to be a good medium defender, and his skills don't seem that far off.

Scotland - was solid when I saw him and didn't particularly notice him in the second half, people mentioned an injury in the thread but I don't recall a specific incident. Don't remember seeing him in the last quarter. Provided he's ok he should provide a good option through midfield to set up play and has had a really good pre-season.

Waite - looks the part for FF. Touch is good, leads are good, aerial ability is good; completely lacks the ability to recover at present to make the second efforts. Everything you'd expect from a FF. :lol: Had a stint in defence where he looked composed but was regularly side-stepped with ease. Will take time before he can bounce around once more, but will be a primary target from the square in the mean time.

Thornton - Regular T-Bird effort, just about spent the whole game playing the last man. Our defensive unit looks rock solid and he is definitely a major reason why. Was forced to hold Tippet for portions and did a reasonable job on him but should have shown a greater readiness to enter aerial contests and ensure the spoil was made. A cheap goal was conceded because he backed his mates to reach underneath to spoil while they were back-pedalling. Didn't work out so well for him. Perhaps he was just taking it easy and protecting himself for round 1.

Houlihan - always solid in possession and presented well to receive at times. Seemed to fade in and out of the game but was involved in stoppage play at times. Will play round 1, but would like to see more run & carry or scoring threats from him.

Jamison - good game. Pulled out a ripper side-step when streaming along the wing on the rebound at one point that drew applause. Again, our back line looks like a superbly oiled machine, and he's a reason why.

Carrazzo - good solid game and disposal was more impressive, as well as his tackling save for one silly head high incident where he was clearly not paying attention to the play (despite being involved in it). Lazy swat of the arms and bump giving away a clear free when he could have wrapped the man in possession with ease. Looks set for his defensive forward role and will link well, although his kicking to leads was poorly flighted at times. One in particular was a good 3 metres wide of Yarran and skidded out of bounds, snuffing out a clean break forward.

Joseph - does all the 1%ers and solid link work. Disposal seems slightly better from last season and he will cause havoc when the opposition have possession. At times in the first half he was the only one chasing around through middle as we did a poor job of pushing back to force turnovers at HB, without actually manning up or zoning, which resulted in some soft goals to Adelaide ala round 22 last year. Not his fault however, and I think he had a good rest on the pine in the second half after playing every pre-season game so far.

Should note one thing I found disappointing about our defence of kickouts was how easily Adelaide drew our zone with the huddle, only to present what our boys thought was an unthinkable option, kicking over the zone to 55 m out, where sure enough, an Adelaide player was in space. At times this player would be in the corridor, so the lack of awareness and talk was deplorable.

Away from that, everything seems to be gearing up well for round 1, just our boys need to really work on how they present to their team mates in possession, particularly kick outs. I still think we'll give Richmond a hiding, but I'll wait for that performance before I assess how we'll fare ongoing. They were definitely in practice game mode for a good portion of this fixture.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:24 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Very scrappy game, scoreboard does not reflect the control the Crows had over the 4 quarters.

We played better in the last quarter which made the score more reasonable but the reality is that the Crows minus several very good players were a 5 goal better side.

I'm not going to sugar coat my view of the game.

Walker is one of my favorite players but he tried hard today but it didn't go his way - gave away frees and his disposal was poor.

Carrots and Houlihan will always get 20+ possesions however they do not hurt the opposition. Pencil Carrots for 20+ possessions against the Tigers but also pencil in 5 clangers. Carrots and Houlihan refuse to put there body on the line, shephard, block etc. There was one moment in the third where Carrots ran forward of Gibbs to get the hanball instead of blocking, Gibbs was tackled. We will never be a serious contender whilst these two are in our side.

The crows forwards block and sacrifice their game for there team mates we do not - Ratten and our forward coach rate very poorly in this area.

We seems to have gone backwards in trying to clear the ball after the opposition score a point. The Crows easily cleared the ball and often would have the ball in the midfield before we could get our hands on it. On the other hand our player who is kicking in looks lost and seems to struggle to find a player in the clear. Again today our direct kick in after a behind resulted in two goals.

Yarran shows good signs, Mitch has been one of our best in the pre season games. Gibbs was in first gear but still our best - no worries with Gibbs he is a gun. Kruise seems to be better on the ground than in the air - will be awsome once he can start controlling the ball in the air. Setanta and Hendo look promising. Hendo just turned 20 we will see his best in two years. Can one of our coaches tell Setanta when he takes a mark he needs to run back quick to size up his options. He tends to stay where he marked the ball and tries to give it of with his opponent right next to him.

I remember watching McLean playing finals footy with the Demons and he was fantastic however it seems the game is too quick for him. I was a big fan in getting him but in the 4 games I have seen him he is terribly slow and struggles to get off the ground to spoil or to get the ball. For me Hadley is the better option.

I would play Garlett, Hadley and Lucas or Davies before Carrots and Houlihan - Any player that is prepared to block and do the 1% for the team.

Eddy ran the game out well as did Russell and Bower.

We need to improve our discipline - we gave away heaps of 50's and we do not play enough attacking football and more importantly we do not have full committment from all players to sacrifice their game for their team mate. Many players today were playing for a round 1 game.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:24 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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thanks for the reports guys

sounds very similar to the weagles game last week in terms of structure/flooding and skill levels etc etc

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:28 pm 
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Garry Crane

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I watched hte whole game.

1st quarter was very scrappy - poor kicks, poor hand ball and but for poor kicining on a beautiful day with no wind Adelaide should have blown us off the park via the scoreboard.

In became a little closer in the 2nd and 3rd quarters and scores were equal at around the 20 minute marke in the 4th quarter.

Conclusions:

1. As a footbal club, we struggle with a flood defense. As a result we can expect to experince more of it as it shuts down out natural run and score orientation to the game. Opposition teams will naturally focus on your weak points rather than play to your strong points.
2. A key focus in a flood defense or even a high zone (Hawthorn) is how to get the ball out of the the defensive 50 zone on a behind kick in. Based on the experience today in quarters 1 and 2, we seem to have little strategy rather than hope.
3. Where the game came back to being close was when we also applied a flood in quarters 3 and 4. However, we are not as profecient in this strategy as other teams and when the game came down to a simple exercise in ball control (we had it and has to kick and mark to continuue control) in the 22nd minute of the 4th quarter with scores level, you could feel what would happen if we made a mistake. This did happen. It was a skill error and relatively unforced at the time.
4. Umpring was uneven in the application of its decisions.
5. Despite this CFC was able to get the scores back to even and should have been ahead but for poor execution in the are about 15 - to 30 metres zone infront of goal late the the 4th quarter. There were 3 to 4 consecutive behinds scored when 1 goal would have changed the momentum.
6. CFC will miss player number 5 in the first 3 rounds.
7. Consistent poor skill execution was shown by Grigg and McLean. Unless there are injury or non availablity issues I would expect to see Hadley and possibly Lucas get a go in Round 1 as alternative players.
8. Excellent efforts by Betts, Yarran, Simpson, Robinson, Kreuzer, Russell and Henderson. Very good but room for improvement in Walker, Houlihan, Waite, Gibbs, Jamieson, Bower, Scotland, Murphy and Warnock.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:32 pm 
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Garry Crane

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this won't please many here...but I feel obliged to at least say it as I saw it today...

I understand it was just a practise match and the result is meaningless but it is true that you play how you practise so let me make a few observations that are consistent from all the 3 preseason games I have seen.

1. our kick in strategy does not appear to have developed since 2008/9. still revolves around chip/chip until we are forced to kick to a contest close to the boundary line. even when we kick to a contest (say kreuzer), we fail to flood numbers to outnumber the contest...which is strange ????

2. our defence of opposition kick ins seems to emphasise the gulf between our kick ins and those of the opposition. the amount of times and the relative speed the crows moved the ball from their kick ins to their offensive half was staggering (at a guess 75%)!

3. unlike most of the other top sides, we have not yet implemented any defensive zone which (as much as people may hate it) has become a key component of modern day football. the blues understandably found it almost impossible to penetrate the crows disciplines defensive zone when set today which becomes frustrating for players and fans alike ! but what is more frustrating is when the crows easily find space in their forward 50 !

it couldn't be that hard to copy !!!!

4. we don't run as hard as other teams when we don't have the ball.....as soon as the crows win the ball they bolt forwards into space...similarly when they lose the ball they bust a gut to get back and fill space and set their zones.

Again the contrast with Carlton is staggering. When we win the ball, most players prefer to gravitate to the boundary to find easy kicks rather than get on their bikes and push forward hard. Similarly it was apparent that when we lost the ball, there were many passengers who were not willing to do the hard yards !

5. Without wanting to state the obvious, we will really struggle to kick winning scores this year. If we are expecting 90-100 goals from O'Hailpin, Henderson and Yarran...we are dreaming!

The disappointing thing for me is that the top 4 observations above were all evident last year and failure to improve these areas in 2010 will be a strong indictment on the footy department.

my view is that we will seriously struggle to play finals this year...and I fear it may become ugly towards the end of the season! hold on for the ride.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:33 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Ratten's press conference

- Armfield playing tomorrow

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:34 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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grrofunger wrote:
thanks for the reports guys

sounds very similar to the weagles game last week in terms of structure/flooding and skill levels etc etc

Disagree, skills were very good at times. When there is an option to hit up, we have plenty of blokes who can execute. I think once our training workloads are down we will spread pretty well and the ball movement will be quite fluid against most teams. I'm more concerned with our unwillingness to have a ping at goal, but I suppose if we can defend better through midfield we won't see huge scores kicked against us.

Our shorter passing by foot really picked up in the second half, and our medium and long passes were good all game.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:44 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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How did Tippett & Walker go for Crows?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:45 pm 
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jezzarules wrote:
How did Tippett & Walker go for Crows?



Both very impressive. Walker has definitely bulked up!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:46 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Some people here crowing about modern football clearly don't know how to watch modern football. Our zones are there, but they are a bit poor. The problem was how we defended the corridor portion from 40 - 60 m from goal. Didn't try to force Adelaide wide a great deal and a good side will just have their mids run in and score from 45 m.

Most of everything else being said here is a complete exaggeration. Here's some real stats:

Blues go down by one point

Quote:
Goals: O'hAilpin 3, Robinson 2, Betts 2, Gibbs, Murphy, McLean, Waite

Key Team Stats
Disposals
Carlton 381
Adelaide 328

Clearances
Carlton 42
Adelaide 24

Inside 50’s
Carlton 47
Adelaide 44

Tackles
Carlton 54
Adelaide 57

Scoring Shots
Carlton 27
Adelaide 23

Top 5 Disposals
25 - Ryan Houlihan
22 - Andrew Carrazzo, Shaun Grigg
21 - Bryce Gibbs
20 - Mitch Robinson

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:49 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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ThePsychologist wrote:
jezzarules wrote:
How did Tippett & Walker go for Crows?



Both very impressive. Walker has definitely bulked up!

Agree, both were impressive. Enjoyed Armstrong's game also.

Henderson's opponent was Bock, for those interested.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:52 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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ThePsychologist wrote:
jezzarules wrote:
How did Tippett & Walker go for Crows?



Both very impressive. Walker has definitely bulked up!

Cheers.
How about Talia v Lucas?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:54 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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jimmae wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
thanks for the reports guys

sounds very similar to the weagles game last week in terms of structure/flooding and skill levels etc etc

Disagree, skills were very good at times. When there is an option to hit up, we have plenty of blokes who can execute. I think once our training workloads are down we will spread pretty well and the ball movement will be quite fluid against most teams. I'm more concerned with our unwillingness to have a ping at goal, but I suppose if we can defend better through midfield we won't see huge scores kicked against us.

Our shorter passing by foot really picked up in the second half, and our medium and long passes were good all game.


ok , um

in terms of structure/flooding then

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:58 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Surprised by some of the feedback. Thought robbo was bog for us and has been our best all pre season. I think we have a very good player here.

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