Bondi, all I'm saying is that because we might be sick of hearing about these incidents, we cannot just "move on" from them; just like we "moved on" from the Angwin/ Norman incident, and Scotland, and Whitnall, and Houlihan/ Fev, and Fev again x100, and Stevens, Garlett Cloke Betts, and copious amounts of other times in 2009 etc. You see a trend there mate?

So nothing has been reported since the booze cruise- fantastic. We're clean for two months! Complacency killed the cat, not a demand for excellence.

I agree that the articles now a couple of days old and this thread doesnt need to continue. I just don't like some of the arguments on here with posters all too willing to "forget" about the booze cruise and a club culture littered with misdeeds rather then acknowledge we have some serious problems and always be willing to hold our leaders to account.

Interestingly ...

well said Bondi

Anything wrong with the culture at the place? (culture = behaviour)

I haven't read or heard anything negative from the club or its reps since prior to christmas.

To the contrary there have been many positive demonstrations and rewards of a positive culture 1) Mars 2) PB's for the players 3) New facilities 4) Krooze signing 5) louder voice from the captain (radio, presented to Mars and sent a letter out to members).

These are all on the positive side of the ledger........i am a glass half full type and comments that we don't have a good culture at the club miff me.

lets look forward - have faith in some outstanding leadership talent that is emerging.

Was not kept open for that long either - unlike the other articles that had a huge go at our club.

Josh as I said previously agree with you wholeheartedly -club culture hasnt been a strength of ours for a number of years - its a bit like when I posted what an ordinary pre-season it had been and then was met with replies well at least its better than for Stkilda Geelong or Tigers - ours is not good just because you can find examples of others being worse

I believe that in Swann and our present board we have good leaders but we need good leaders at all levels and this leadership reallyhasnt filtered down yet -from the coach to the president to the captain the leadership group the captain of the bullants all need to be strong effective leaders who lead by not just words but actions

If this doesnt happen soon maybe those at the top need to be replaced

As for Caro -arguments like she is ugly hasnt played- barracks for Tiges - are really facile - some of her comments are pertinent -I DONT LIKE her but she does make some salient points

Also sometimes in the face of criticism from say the AFL heavyweights she at least holds the line whereas other journalist will back down

Hey old 55 I thought you were dead
Have you got that Crompton goal in colour yet


Actually all jokes about Pimms and ski fields and tweed jackets I reckon you blokes may suprise a few this year

Look I know where you are coming from.

I don't want complacency either, but rehashing the same old same old isn't the best way forward imo. It's a new chapter in the Carlton story. It started January 4th 2010.

I tell you what. In the next decade, there will be a player or 2 wearing the CFC jumper who will step over the line. That will happen with all clubs. Lets make sure we don't blame the club for everything an individual does, otherwise we should stop knife supply and production after the next knife stabbing. Confuscious will love that.

The club will weild the axe on the next transgressor; period!

End of story.

If the off field leadership is at fault in the future, then by all means bring out Caro and parade her through Visy Park with he megaphone and join her choir and play her tune. Until then, it's a new chapter.

All the incidents from Angwin to Betts you mention are irrelevant in the context of things 2010. I don't see a pattern since Betts. I've heard the punishment forthcoming for those who transgress. I never heard that before from that period you allude to, so they are irrelevant and there is no pattern continuing.

End of story.

COME ON BLUEBAGGERS....LETS TAKE IT OUT ON THE OTHER 15 TEAMS!!!!!

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

So I guess what you want Josh is for the following to happen............Print Journalists take it in turns once a month to rehash every negative thing they can find on CFC, just so the Club doesn't forget and we don't get ahead of ourselves. Brilliant Plan.

Draw up a list of Journalists and a list of misdemeanors to be sent to them and they can cut and paste at their leisure when it is their turn. Simple yet effective.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

let the herald scum and caro and the age say whatever they want, it should only galvanize the club and playing group and spur us on, ratten and co should use this to our advantage and develop a seige mentality, us against the world! i hope they do more garbage stories like caro's and someone pins them up in the rooms for the players to see! fire them right up and get em thinking were gonna stick it right up em! it never fails, on a side note if caroline wilson was the last woman on earth i would (find warmth) with a brown bear instead, she was put together with used car tyres by satan himself im sure of it!

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"Then joked and said he (Jack himself) probably wouldn't even need to play until round 2 against Collingwood."

Might help to read what I wrote Cazz.
My main concern is the response of many on here was almost reflexively to find reasons why our club shouldn't be held responsible- posters blamed Caro, tried to turn the focus on other clubs, called this "old news" etc.
As I said:


But the "she'll be right" approach sprinkled with a victim mentality that you and others have articulated got us in this mess in the first place. Let's acknowledge Caro makes some good points, and keep hammering the club in ensuring every measure they implement to turn around our culture is properly enforced. Not think up any more excuses.

So you're blaming anonymous posters on a fan site for creating bad culture at Carlton?

If anyone else wrote this article you might - I ONLY SAID MIGHT - pay attention.
Why is it getting so much play on this site?
Let's focus on what is coming up people!.

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It's the jumper

Caro and her ilk now know how to turn the Carlton community into a pack of ferals desperate to eat other alive. Expect a 'Booze Cruise opinion piece' to bob every every couple of months or so just to keep the status quo.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

That's what Josh said. I'm sure he did.

I give up!

So Caro's now dividing us?

Bullshit...I'm Carlton through and through, and I can't stand Caro Wilson, and it has nothing to do with her looks. I don't even know what she looks like.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Sorting the wheat from the chaff, more likely...

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Well he hasn't answered. But if that is the case, it's rather baffling.

This entire story is a storm in a tea cup.

Alcohol is legal and drinking alcohol is a legal activity last time I checked. If the players want to have a booze cruise in their spare time then it is fine with me. It is no worse than any mad-Monday activity. What is not appropriate is the violence that the alcohol induced afterwards. That is not part of an alcohol culture, it is a part of an anger management culture. The hazing of new recruits can't be condoned, but again there was nothing inherrently illegal about the players action on the cruise itself. The company hiring the boat have an obligation under law to control the drinking habits of those onboard.

And the comments regarding Juddy, well it is no worse than what people have been saying on this very forum since the great man joined our club. Judd leads by example, He trains hard and plays hard and he lets his on-field actions speak for him. I do not see Judd as being responsible for the action of players at Crown Casino in the early hours of the morning. I can see Caro having a go at Judd, but seriously what can he do? Afterwards he spoke out against binge drinking, the players involved received an appropriate sentence for their "crimes".

Any player that plays AFL footy knows that there actions will be subject to more scutiny by a blood-thirsty public, but seriously lets put this into perpective. To weight it higher than someone being charges with trafficing cocaine and a serious sex offence is just rubish.

It appears that the Lovett was out with a group of team mates before allegedly raping a girl. This is not the first time St Kilda have been linked to sexual abuse. Does that mean that there is a sex-culture at the club. Will Caro's next article attack Nick for not being able to control his new recruits.

If Caro is looking for a scapegoat for drunken behaviour of a few individuals I think she chose the wrong man to blame. Judd is the consumate professional. He leads by example and one only needs to look at the respect he commands from our recruits to see how his example is adhered to out on the track.

Just to illustrate a point imagine that all the stories reported were not football related. Which ones would be news worthy? I suggest that the Carlton story would not even be a blip on the Victorian media's consciousness.

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"our guest is dressed by hand-me-downs, hair designed by pillow"

The reality probably is that you have a squad of dedicated young AFL players that know what they have to do - and do it.

They also know that they have to behave - and do it.

So for 99.9 percent of the time for 99.9 percent of the team - they are on the positive side of being exemplary.

Then they let their hair down just once and the media come down like a truckload of housebricks.

Of course it's the same media that do absolutely nothing to report the fact that nothing has gone wrong for pretty much all of the time they have been training - and quite cynically use one slip as a basis of creating a perception that there is a booze culture at the club.

It is a case of not letting the truth get in the way of a newsworthy story - which of course is blown up to resemble a reality that suits their shabby and disreputable purposes.

OK, Judd might have this or that about him that mightnt be the perfect leader - but the man has won a brownlow medal and been a premiership captain - So what additional qualifications are these people expecting him to have in order to make their circulation and sales driven grade?

Would a combination of the morality of mother Teresa, the aggression of atilla the hun and the rectitude of st augustine be enough for The Age Or the HUN - would these people be happy then?

Im not sure whether they would.

Or is the little fact that Chris Judd already has the football credentials that matter - something that is very conveniently forgotten when you are trying to run with a tired beat up about a bad culture at Carlton - that is about 3 weeks late?

If I had my pick of parasites to infest me, Id probably select ticks, leeches, fleas, cockroaches and bedbugs over the behaviour of the media in instances like this.

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My Blue Heaven

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i don't wanna spend my life explaining myself. Either you get it, or you don't- Frank Zappa

I didn't want to really dignify what you said with a response Verbs but because your man Bondi jumped on the proverbial as well I may as well spell it out for you.
We have had deep seated cultural issues for almost a decade. We have been devoid of any semblance of on and off field leadership predominantly for that timeframe. We are only starting to get our shit together now (and I use the word now very strictly) but WE (the members, administrators, players) cannot hide behind excuses and continue to just pooh pooh articles such as these like many on here have been doing because we have a long long way to go.

Steve spelt out the standard:



That is all I want our club to strive for, but because of our shithouse culture we have been nowhere near this mark for so long.
I don't know why that is so complicated and has caused so much consternation.