I'm not sold on him.
On the one side, not everybody gets 20 possies a game but can still impact games. Having said that, the thing that worried me was the day he took a bit of a hit in the side and went down to the rooms, only returning to the game much later and almost under pressure from the coach.
OK, it might have been in the kidney or it might not. Maybe he was worried it was his back again but it left me wondering if he is a bit soft.
I'd like to revisit this after he has had a full pre-season with us and a full season on top of it.
If Silvagni continues to improve, he might offer a more complete package without the occasional speccy.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Fair enough.

All I said was that:

* he can jump: which he can, and won 2 games after the siren for Crows as a 20 and 21yo, and that jump when he touched a kick that was going through the goal was amazing.

* he can sprint: he was clocked as the quickest player on the list in game time

* he can hit hard: he laid a lot of hits and protected our small players in the forward line when they were brushed aside and hit, something we have wanted to see for the last 10 years.

I wasn't wrong on any point.

I understand where you are coming from: Mitch hasn't shown $700K of value thus far, hence, SOS overpaid. Faor enough. Can't argue with that.

As I said, I only responded to your sarcasm in your comment "are you for real" when I was, and imo justifiably so. My point has been all along the club has to be held acccountable, and to a lesser degree Mitch. Mitch wasn't fit enough to play but was elected to play for various reasons when he shouldn't. Teague dropped him and sent him to Russell to get him match fit. He came back in fantastic condition.

I think what we have amassed with SOS is 3 very athletic tall targets who can mark and kick goals (when fit): McKay, Curnow and McGovern. These 3, when over ther injury concerns and match fit will create huge head aches for the opposition. They can spread the load, play the decoy etc and will only need 15 possessions each to kick 10 goals a game. That's the theory, and I like it. The jury is out because the 3 of them have not taken the field when all 3 are fit and firing. I hope they do, and if they do they are worth every cent imo.

Until they all fire, I agree the jury is still out as to their perceived value, and completely understand the points you and Blue Sobrero make. I know BS cuts players a bit of slack, but he makes a good point, albeit different to yours.

AS for how many times he is rotated from the forward line to the bench, until we find out why from the coach its pure speculation. On that point, expect a lot of rotations and multi positional players in 2020 in the midfield and forwardline, moreso than the backline, and that will be a weapon for us. Keep the opposition guessing and worrying about us.

High risk, high reward. Fingers crossed...for real.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Question for Cru and BS: Is McGovern in your best 22?

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

SOS has done an average job with the list rebuild to be honest.

The jury is still out on several highly drafted players like Fisher, Cunningham and SPS. I think Harry has under performed but taller players do take longer to develop.

Outside of the first 2 round selections, he has failed to pick up any decent players late in the draft. This is a major concern for me as the top clubs seem to find a gem or 3 late on the draft or via rookie draft and he has failed to find any in 5 attempts at it. I cannot name one player outside pick 30 who looks promising. So this makes me doubt the kids he selected with the early draft picks.

When SOS sold the rebuild to the board his plan was to hit the draft for the 3 years and in 2018 and 19 top up with free agents and sky rocket up the ladder in 2020.... he failed miserably and this has set back any chance of us playing finals in 2020.

Tom Williamson looks pretty promising at pick 61.

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Orandum est ut sit mens sana in corpore sano. Fortem posce animum mortis terrore carentem, qui spatium vitae extremum inter munera ponat naturae, qui ferre queat quoscumque labores.

So being closer to Christmas and things are slowing down I thought I'd have a crack at the points value of the Mitch Trade.

The trade:
“The Crows receive pick No. 13, a future fifth-round selection from Carlton and highly-rated Sturt forward Shane McAdam, who the Blues were able to claim as one of their mature-aged pre-draft access picks.
“Carlton gains McGovern and a future third-round selection from Adelaide, while Sydney receives selections No. 26 and 28 from the Blues as well as No. 40 from the Crows.”

Actual trade and final pick value used:
Crows:
Pick 16-1280
Pick 65-298 (traded to GWS but you could also value it at 0 as they only used 1 pick in round 5 in the end)
Shane Mc Adam, pick 45-565 (appx value based on Krueger trade to Geelong for pick 43)
Less
Mitch McGovern
Pick 44-581 traded to Sydney
Pick 51-475 traded to Carlton

Final points gained = 1087 (equal to pick 21-22)

Sydney:
Pick 31-828
Pick 33-784
Pick 44-581
Less
Pick 16-1280

Final points gained = 913 (equal to pick 27-28)

Carlton:
Mitch McGovern
Pick 51-475 (Adelaide future 3rd)
Less
Pick 31-828
Pick 33-784
Pick 45-565 (appx value based on Krueger trade to Geelong for pick 43)
Pick 65-298

Final points used = 2000 (equal to pick 5)

The 2 other factors to take into account are:
Our round 5 pick may not have been used (less another 298=1702, pick 8 )
McAdam did not play at all this year and still may not make it and if he doesn't then...... (less another 565=1137, pick 20)

Average trading by AFC and excellent trading by Sydney.
It ultimately cost us more to add Sydney into the deal, maybe it was a side deal bonus for the Newman trade.

Based on the possibility of McAdam not playing, an early second rounder for Mitch seems pretty fair, especially taking into account he still had 2 years of his contract at AFC.
But for me personally, I still question the need for him as a player (without taking into account Charlie injuries).
We are too top heavy in the forward line and a 700k mid would've been more beneficial IMO.

To be noted, his goal stats are on par with his time at AFC, averaging appx. 1.4 goals per game and 22 goals per season.
Let's hope he can step it up a level in 2020.

I'm expecting to finish 7th or 8th in 2020 if Harry, Charlie, JM & Eddie can play 18+ solid or better games each we should kick more winning scores.

I've liked McGoverns physical presence and accurate set shots this year and I expect a fitter McGovern to produce more of that next year.

I expect Docherty, Williamson and Newnes to strengthen our already solid back six and a stronger young midfield group to improve our possession count.

I think Pittonet is a solid acquisition to support Krooz and TDK.

So, all in all I think SOS has set us up pretty well talent wise. It's up to others now to get them to produce it and I expect them to deliver.

I posted a few months back in the List Management 2020 thread that I think the spot is his, but it's not my best 22. I've got him in because I think we've got, at best, 25 AFL-level players and a $700k forward needs to play.

I think Jack Silvagni, Casboult, Kennedy and McGovern are on the board as "third tall" options, if that's what the structure of the day calls for. In my best 22, the position is Levi's until the midfield depth improves to the point where all of Dow, O'Brien, Cunningham and any of the 2019 draft class MUST be included - at which point I would have Jack or Kennedy in the role.

In short, Brackets gets his chance because the others are deployed elsewhere.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Don’t expect an avalanche of support around here, but nonetheless I give you a




Having said that (ironically) this draft could be SOS’s best with the late picks, like Ramsay, Honey and Phillips.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Kinnear Beatson has knocked us back, apparently.

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I understood that we were not interested in him in the first place.


So your source is interesting.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

As I said previously, I'd be throwing everything at Dalrymple.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

[quote="bondiblue" Question for Cru and BS: Is McGovern in your best 22?[/quote]

The best 22 for 2020 will be determined by the form leading up to Rd 1 and not the form late in 2019.
As I said earlier, I'm not sold on him but that was last year and I obviously haven't seen anything to tell me he's better or worse. Maybe you have if you've seen him at training.
If Harry, Charlie, Mitch, Jack, Martin, Eddie, Cunningham are all fit, How do we set up the F50? Jack finished the year off very well but Charlie is in front of him. Harry is a given even though Levi is a much better kick for goal. Would I have Jack in the forward line instead of McGovern (which might be the choice come Rd1)? On last year's form? Yes.
Did McGovern get a decent run at it last year? No. That back injury set him back a lot. Will he play Rd 1? Depends on how they see the set up. I'm thinking yes but then what do they do with Jack?

I don't think Kennedy is in the mix in the front half if everybody is fit. I think he'll play midfield or will miss out. I think Jack finished off the year better and has more to offer than Kennedy and isn't far off Mitch. Certainly he is more rounded and hard at it. Kennedy had no pre-season last year. I just watched the Rd 22 StK game and Mitch played pretty well in terms of impacting the game, albeit with not a lot of possessions but that's apparently him in a nutshell.

If McGovern can produce and sustain his best form I think he is in our best 22.
Has the MC got the balls to leave him out of Rd 1? I doubt it.

_________________
Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Some fair point in that. Add O'Brien to that list.
I think Harry has proven to be OK. Had he kicked straight last season he' have been fantastic as a FF. SPS has been on my radar but I think he will be a winner. Th others are still an unknown quantity.
We can't force free agents to pick us. That will come.

_________________
Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Yep !

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All my dangerous friends

Ralphy and SEN twitter.

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I'd abolish the role and put more into the two areas of failure - scouting and recruitment.

If the Head of Football, National Recruiting Manager and List Manager can't devise a recruiting and list management strategy, then one or all of them needs to go.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Good points.

It will be interesting to see if they replace SOS or just make the position redundant.

He does....

During the same period at the Tigers, pick 40 onwards (most are rookie selections)...

Ross, Stack & Pickett in 7 months, and all three would be in our best 22...

Then there's Broad, Chol, Graham, Stengle (now at the Crows), Baker... 3 or 4 more would probably be in our best 22

Then there's Dan Butler (St.kilda now) and Jayden Short from the 2014 rookie draft prior to SOS's reign

And Kane Lambert before then...

No wonder our club started listening....