Courageous.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Misconception: Craig was there for all of 2017. Why did we only win 1 of our last 10 games that year?

Wheels fell off mid 2017 for mine

I don't like DE as a rule as its a bit subjective as what makes an effective disposal, turnovers are what cost most as this kills team defence, so how do our mids stack up to Shiel?

Walsh 90 total, ave 5.3
E.Curnow 74, 4.4
Murphy 62, 4.4
Setterfield 52, 4
Dow 55, 3.4
SPS 54, 3.2
Shiel 87, 5.4

None of our mids turn the ball over more often than shiel and it's not much surprise that a kid 18 games into his career turns it over the most and even then less often than Shiel who is 150+ games into his.

Interesting that Dow gets bagged quite a bit of this site for his disposal and yet turns the ball over the least of all our true mids

Stats can be useful but they can also be misleading.
At the game on Saturday there was a hacked kick forward that was marked by a GC player who was standing alone a few metres in front of the nearest Carlton player. On the scoreboard when they flashed up his stats it had been counted as a "contested mark".

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

I think the answer is pretty obvious. Kids(1st-3rd year players depending on size/position). Unless they're Sam Walsh freakish, they all start to drop off mid year. Plus in our case, we already had a lack of depth and some of our key A-Graders were injured (e.g.Crippa from Rd17 onwards and Ed Curnow Rd15 onwards). Our "developed" talent has been overestimated for the last 3 years and so to our depth. At the end of the 2017 season even blind Freddy could see we lacked mature age talent in the middle, that's why the club went for Rockcliff and Smith. Then we went for Shiel in 2018 and now Coniglio in 2019. The fact is, we still need A-grade mature age talent to compliment the "developing" kids and the coach we appoint needs to be able to attract this talent and use it to nurture/compliment their development.

And as aboynamedsue has pointed out, the only thing clear about above comments to my Shiel post is most don't want to reflect and think about where we could've been with more mature age talent this year. And then using this information to make a non emotional decision for the next coach that will best fit our club at this point in time of our development. Personally, I'm not concerned about being all warm and fuzzy in having an ex Carlton player at the helm, I want a coach that will take us to a premiership. And a scenario with Teague and a mentor, is pure nonsense. You either back him or you don't. I think as a supporter base we have become too conditioned in trying to unearth the next unproven talent, be it coach or player. That time is now over and it's time to target proven performers. And as for the players approaching the board, since when has it made good business sense to let the tail wag the dog. IMO, only well drilled, structured teams win premierships in the modern era. Fun, no pressure football is for junior levels, not the AFL. I also believe with the right coach and 2 A-grade mature mids we will be playing finals next year or just missing out at the worst.

So I hope I'm wrong, but my fear for the remainder of the year is this (especially after watching the GC game):
We will only win 1 more game at the most.
We will receive a 10 goal flogging (or more).

My coach order is:
1.Clarkson
2.Another proven coach (hopefully not Scott).
3.Ratten
4.Teague
5.Other unproven

Cripps and Ed out injured

Is Clarkson even getable Sidefx?

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Our tradition demands success!

If we go by whispers, then anything is possible I guess. IMO All personal biases aside, we'd be mad not to have a crack at him (I reckon they're lining Mitchell up for his job anyway). Much like we'd be mad not to have a crack at some of the top players names that have been thrown around. Contracted or not. Especially now some people in the media are toting us as an upcoming club and using words like exciting, potential etc.

The list rebuild was cooked 8 weeks ago. Now we’re exciting. A week is a long time in footy, 8 weeks an eternity.

Teague has another 5 weeks to audition. Use all 5 weeks to assess.

Just not Ross Lyon.... please.

x2.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

We hear plenty of talk about ‘destination’ clubs from the players perspective, but what about coaches?

Will assistants sign on to work with a young (relatively) senior coach, with the prospect of remaining an assistant for at least the next five years?

Out of that group, how many would be willing to come to our club and subject themselves to our ‘family business’?

I guess that’s where the Lyon and Clarkson camps get plenty of oxygen.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

[quote="toddkurnski"]The list rebuild was cooked 8 weeks ago. Now we’re exciting. A week is a long time in footy, 8 weeks an eternity.

Teague has another 5 weeks to audition. Use all 5 weeks to assess.

Just not Ross Lyon.... please.[/quote]

Might need to tell the powers to be that.
We seem to be shopping around everywhere for players or the media are trying to connect us to just about everyone. Can't see it being as big as the last 3 seasons but we will most likely bring in 5-8 new players, mostly already in the system.

I’ll raise you: Gibbs & Docherty

Both played in that period

Next 5 weeks is the big test.
Get a few pumpings and people might start thinking twice about Teague.
But if we manage to sneak a few wins, will be hard to go past him.

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For me the equation remains the same:
If we win 6 games under Teague, he gets the job. (2 out of the next 5 which would mean probably beating one of the better teams and also StK which will probably be harder than it appeared a few weeks go)
If we win 5 under Teague he would be in a very strong position but might be susceptible under the pre-existing preference of some decision makers for another coach.
If we win 4 games, it is par and Teague is 50-50 to win the job. Although, at ‘50-50’, I think the decision swings against (vs the scenarios above where I think it swings slightly in his favour).

Yep, it's a pretty simple equation really.

Unlike the Ratten caretaker period where he would have been judged negatively for wins, haha.

It's been said before, but if the players really want Teague then their performance (and hopefully the odd win) should help Teague get the gig.

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I think that it is liberating for the players and coach that we traded our number one pick. There’s no incentive for anyone at the club if we lose games.

My expectations are super low. I'll change my vote now from other to Teague because fence sitting is a bit silly in this instance and I think an environment where the players have genuine belief in a coach is important. Win/Loss for the remainder of the year doesn't matter. Players attitude/effort and proactive matchday coaching counts for much, much more, but I'm not convinced that the decision makers have a good reading on that.

Playing golf yesterday the whisper is Ross Lyon will be Carlton’s senior coach in 2020
I hope this not true

I'd get new golf partners.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa