I have posted this somewhere else, but i think it should be presented as its own topic.

I can see what is happening to our team. I believe that 6 years being down the bottom, results of Pagans defunct game plan and old fashioned methods, have contributed to a lot of pain and deep core self esteem issues.

The fact that we've been in front at half time, or 3QT on about 20 occasions in the last 2 and a half years and lost those games is shocking.

I think, its as if we need these guys to be hypnotized and put through to the club psychologists, because as we seen last night, we have the makings of a competitive side, but we are so scarred, from the years of mediocrity that its a big illness of the club that we can't shake off!

I hate to sound to negative here but this is what i really believe and i'm quite worried about it to be honest!

Synbad was right when he said that our players arent drilled, were afraid of losing or winning.. Anyone who watched the first quarter in particular, cant tell me what they saw wasnt rather impressive, i know Stkilda were quite average, but this kind of footy is what we should be expecting of our side..

How many years in a row now have we heard the same old story of not finishing off games??? Last night was propably the most frustrating i have been at a game for years, i was really livid!! flower what the papers say, we can expect more from our team, and i really think we need to get to the core of these SELF ESTEEM ISSUES and this painful LOSING MENTALITY and really try to address it!!

Its time for this to stop!! Listen, 6 or 7 years of this, dont underestimate the wounds this creates to the overall club psyche! The club really needs to get to the bottom off our DEEP CONFIDENCE ISSUES..

Whats the point of stocking up on all this talent, if the talent we have can't finish off the good work. IT'S TIME FOR THE CLUB MENTALITY TO CHANGE!!

I just wanted to know you guys thoughts on this?? I believe it's a problem, and its real!

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“First they came for the socialists, I did not speak out as I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out as I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out, I was not a Jew.Then they came for me and there was no one left for me.”

Absolutely. Personally I think in all the shitstorms that have happened this past couple of weeks, this issue has been brought up the least, yet IMO is arguably the most important. In the Pagan environment, with the club in the state it was in, and little to no support structure, it's hardly surprising if guys are demoralised. Hearing supporters say they'd be better off losing doesn't help either, nor does hearing their coach saying "Yeah <INSERT> made a lot of blunders, but he's young and he'll learn from that" every week. It's definitely something that needs to be looked at.

If all it took to get the ball rolling was for Sticks to ask Pratt to help out, then wonders won't cease as to why the @#$%&! we didn't do this 4-5 years ago.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

We will be right down the bottom both this year and next due to many, many reasons.

I AM SO SICK OF WAITING

You are spot on...I think this is one of the biggest issues on our horizon.

I wrote in another thread that I am really concerned that we have a "near enough is good enough" mentality developing.

Judd spoke about the need to hate losing and not just have another "gallant defeat".

BIG ISSUE!!

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"...that's the thing about opinion - you don't have to know anything to have one..." Andre Agassi commenting on Pat Cash 2004
"...the less you know - the more you believe..." - Bono 2006

What a lot of people on here don't realise - and I'm referring to those who think we need to drop another couple of seasons to get a few more KPPs and high draft picks - is that you could have easily the best, most well drilled team on the field... but if you don't have that winning mentality, it doesn't count for sweet f all.

Skills are important, but football is played above the shoulders as well - and you can't always blame exhaustion on a team dropping a substantial lead in the last half of the game.

A losing culture is ingrained in this side. What we need to do is work out how to turn it around so we can start winning games!!

why is everyone still blaming pagan yet in the same breathe canning ratten and demanding we play on and kick long at all costs ( the same shit pagan ws blamed for )

look i hated pagan but a complete lack of football knowledge is being displayed on this board at present

no gameplan under the sun would help us right now - we are lazy and lack heart - pure and simple

fitness and past mental scars are the weak excuses of losers

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Agree. We need a good psychologist. We need to bleed when we lose!

Mate, this thread has nothing to do with skills and gameplans...

yeah but it was another example of blaming pagan which i think is a copout, just like using past mental scars as a copout

Its about time our players stood up and took some pride in their performance and played like it meant something to them instead of running around like pampered prima donna's .

using past mental scars as an excuse is a weak copout

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Yep, we cant put a team to the sword, we get 4 or 5 goals up, then freeze, either get flogged or fall over the line to victory. Agree totally something needs to be done to improve player mentality.

Yeah, nah your right. 7 years of shit footy, guys busting their guts only to get belted by 60 odd points, no system and game plan and all these things, nah that wouldnt make a difference at all..

@#$%&! sakes, get real! Look, i think it too is a bit of copout, but THATS THE REALITY!!

Reality is, our young kids are not developing at the rate a lot of other teams are, aside from pure talent like Murphy, Gibbs etc.. who are gifted.

Mate, add up the win loss ratio from Now till the start of 2002, and then tell me that that wouldnt have some sort of effect on the psyche of our players!

It's time everyone took note, and realised this! This is the biggest problem were facing as a club, and has nothing to do with anything else. Sure, a tall KP backman would help enormously but it's above the shoulders, where the club HAS TO CHANGE!

Seriously mate, you've got to be kidding me if you don't think that makes a difference!!

Mate, it's a cop out if you can't see that!

_________________
“First they came for the socialists, I did not speak out as I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out as I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out, I was not a Jew.Then they came for me and there was no one left for me.”

i agree we are mentally weak but to blame the past is what i feel is a copout. yes we have been shit - yes that sux but we are talking about professional athletes , not babies or butterflies or little puppy dogs.

If our players cant forget about the past , buckle down , play with some pride , passion , hunger , agression etc - then they dont belong. the past is the past it should have @#$%&! all to do with it.

its about time the players took some accountability for their performances and stopped looking for excuses

the past is an excuse

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

We need teachers .

The players know not what to do....

They have no idea how to play a simple game at the highest level.

Ratts is behind where he needs them to be...

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I think Judd alludes to this notion that we have got to change our mentality and stop making excuses for ourselves..



In saying that, i get the feeling Chris Judd is quite aware of the lack of confidence we have out on the park, and core self esteem issues we face when it comes to winning! 2nd week its happened to us losing after being up, and its happened about 20 times the last 2 years!

It really is time to move forward!!

_________________
“First they came for the socialists, I did not speak out as I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out as I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out, I was not a Jew.Then they came for me and there was no one left for me.”

Do you not think we were rather impressive in that first quarter? I thought we were playing good direct footy, down the corridor and linking up well..

And then all of a sudden, which has happened a number of times, we get a nice lead and then we cave in and we again become too defensive!

Look i'm not sure about Ratts yet, all i know is that our thinking desperately needs to change!

_________________
“First they came for the socialists, I did not speak out as I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out as I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out, I was not a Jew.Then they came for me and there was no one left for me.”

you can search and find things for every losing club that looks ok for 10 mins.....

but the opposition has a coach and a style too.. and they can make moves to counter what youre doing...

then we have no come back...

that aint a coach and that aint a drilling...

were just super naive still... and i have not seen any improvement this year in any of the important things.

blocking.. shepherding... linking up... helping out your team mates... tackiling etc...

some of them are going backwards... (carazzo scotland etc) others are staying the same.....

no excuses...

you want to see progress....

am i impatient???

no im not... its 6 years and ratts has had the job for 1/10 of that.... thats still plenty of time...

unfit players????dont play them... play whoever is 100% bat judd... (if he is up to playing)


our matchups are terrible and out strategy even worse...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Looks like the Elgin Marbles will have to wait a bit.

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I've always harped on about our shit mentality since my first posts years back, yet everyone talked about not having the cattle...

We beat Essendon* last year as we were ferocious by midway through the 2nd term after getting thumped from pillar to post. This is the only way we've beaten teams in our few wins over the years with virtually the SAME TEAM in each season. The times we were competitive with Port, beat Collingwood, beat Adelaide - we had desire! Skills and desire will win premierships, desire alone would at least make us competitive, as we were.

I said it in another thread, that if it doesn't change by the end of the year which I think to a degree it will, I'd spare no expense shipping them somewhere in the world where there are elite training facilities and coaches, along with mental coaching to get inside their heads. Personally I'd send them to an army training base in tough conditions for a month or so continually pushing their physical limits to the point of breaking them, but doing activities in teams forcing them to sacrifice for their peers and penalising the whole team when one isn't working hard enough. It would substaintally increase their fitness base while giving them a sense of achievement and a will to put their team mates first.

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--------------------------------------------------------"The only one that could ever love me..."

I couldnt agree more - I had the same thoughts recently and thought of the motto 'who dares, wins' (SAS?) - once we have that mentality I think we will be ok. Atm we've forgotten what needs to be done to win games consistently.

I reckon there will be an interesting line in the sand with Judd and Hadley - who are used to winning - and our list...

Who dares cross the line to join Judd and co??

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"...that's the thing about opinion - you don't have to know anything to have one..." Andre Agassi commenting on Pat Cash 2004
"...the less you know - the more you believe..." - Bono 2006