**Begin Disclaimer**
For those that wear their hearts on their sleeves this is simply my 2c worth.
**End Disclaimer**

It seems to me that there are parrellels with St Kilda circa early 1990's and The Carlton Football Club right now.

Back then St Kilda had a leading forward who kicked bags for them and usually it required him to fire for them to win. This forward won the Brownlow in 1987 and was the target of several clubs over that time but the fear at St Kilda was they would be giving up (losing) there only real matchwinner. This was the same fear that kept them at that mud hole for so long when the move to Waverley was clearly a better option.

As Stan Alves said then (as a commentator before his coaching stint with the Saints), if St Kilda want to seriously compete in September it has to firstly learn to play away from Moorabbin and then have an even contribution from across the park. No Lockett should not equal no St Kilda.

The Carlton situation over the last couple of years has been quite similar. True we have recently kicked scores without a major input from Brendan Fevola but that has only happened really this year. Like the St Kilda's wayward forward, Brendan Fevola can also turn a game on it's head and a 4-5 game purple patch could propel a team into the 8 and finals contention.

St Kilda had some pretty good players in those days, Winmar, Harvey, Loewe, Burke and of course Lockett. A young Barry Hall and Austin Jones was still to emerge.

It seems to me that we have trodden a similar path to St Kilda in recent years. I worry what direction we'll take to avoid the years in the wilderness they've spent since. The up and down cycle they experienced over that 10 or so year period 1988-2001 in which they made finals a couple of years and finally a Grand Final in which they were belted, the ongoing off field fiasco and then a period of some stability through to now.

I think the clubs at the cross roads in some respects and like St Kilda we have a group of talented players at various stages of their careers. We have had our off field problems and are about to play coaching merry go arounds. I feel our next decisions are really quite crucial or the next decade will be a similar outcome to the Saints.

Thoughts?

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The great are great to us only because we are on our knees. Let us arise.
--Robert Collier

You can NEVER compare Carlton to St.Kilda!

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“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
- Martin Luther King Jr.

Unfortunately BlueBern my worry is that we've become the new St Kilda.

Are there lessons that can be learnt from their recent history in respect to the Carlton Football Club?

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The great are great to us only because we are on our knees. Let us arise.
--Robert Collier

we've got many more decades of utter failure & misery to come to even get close in comparison to being like StKilda

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There's so much I could say...

Barry Hall
Tony Lockett
Peter Everitt
Jon Hay
Chris Tarrant
Dean Solomon

Clubs that trade talented but troubled players can and do prosper.

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"I had to eat"

Over our last 5 years which other club in the AFL would come close to matching them? 6 years has already passed and the turnaround is still to happen. I think there are signs but I sense the decisions we make in the next 12 months may well dictate our next decade.

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The great are great to us only because we are on our knees. Let us arise.
--Robert Collier

Extrapolate our efforts over 5 years to 100 years and your getting somewhere closer to Aints territory, except we've won more than one granny in that time

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On face value, it's frighteningly similar. However, perhaps a more in depth look would see some stark differences. I was only born in 91, so I'm not the best judge.

We have Greg Swann, Stephen Icke and Dick Pratt at the club. All proven in their fields.

We will soon have a new coach, and I don't believe this talent we have will go to waste.

Todays 'line in the sand' action with Fev should reaffirm this too. The club needs to set a tough, uncompromising stance to the entire playing group. All players representing Carlton - especially the leaders - MUST play with discipline, passion and for the team. Play for the jumper or p**s off!

I tend to think that there is merit in pointing out the parallel Carlton today has with the saints in the late 80's and early 90's and the ultimate direction that their wayward forward took in leaving that club.

That descision at the time migh have been a difficult one, but it did work out better for the saints - they had more finals appearances in the 90's than in the 80's...

The only difference I think is that if we did a similar thing, we ultimately might do a bit better than just have a finals appearance or two.

I have said previously that I do feel that Carlton will make a big trade with an untouchable player, maybe even at the end of this season...

These are only feelings of course, but the controversy surrounding Fevola at the moment has fuelled my interest in this particular worldline and how it might unfold......

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My Blue Heaven

We haven't won at Moorabbin for bloody years either!

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I saw Lockett give SOS a huge bath there one day. He won the game for them. I think he kicked about 10 sausage rolls

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Cheats never prosper (except in the AFL)

i bet he didnt away two consequetive 50's and spit the dummy either?

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Back like a raging case of pubic lice

10 goals 9 if my memory serves me correctly.

But your point is interesting SPF. I agree that the upcoming decisions are crucial, and in fact, I already think we missed the boat with one or two over the last couple of years that could have given us some more draft picks.

Getting a really good trade for Fevola could really set us up. More importantly is the coaching decision, it is absolutely, vitally crucial that we get this right. It is for this reason that I am concerned about the supposed interest in getting Voss without going through an exhaustive interview process with the best candidates. We simplay cannot afford to make the wrong decision, and need to do everything we can to eliminiate risk and get the best person out there.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

ehhh... no. If you extrapolated the number of spoons... (3 in 5 years = 60%)

I think you're right actually with what you say, our back office is now better than the Saints currently and that is one of the real positives to come out of the last 12 months. Cast your mind back a year or so and we were postively worse than St Kilda which says an awful lot about where this club has been.

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The great are great to us only because we are on our knees. Let us arise.
--Robert Collier

Ye Gods! Imagine if he'd kicked straight!



Yes it's one of those things really that could well be significant moment in our history. Not that I remember it but perhaps a bit like Barrassi coming to Carlton and the effect that actually had on the club ethos long term. Not only did Carlton become more of a force on field but off it as well.

Carlton needs both. The coach can help restore some of the respect on the park but the club needs it's "mojo" back which I'm not sure how we do that. I think it's just a process of really hard work by a dedicated team over the medium term that's going to bring this about and the leadership shown from the top down that spells the end to mediocrity at this club.

I think its that young core coming through from about the Jarrad Waite/Andrew Walker level where we have to make the inroads. Above that they'll be quite possibly few left by the time this club returns to regular winning appearences. For mine this is the leadership group at Carlton, this is where it has to happen. When that group matures, Carlton will start winning again.

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The great are great to us only because we are on our knees. Let us arise.
--Robert Collier

At least Camel; it won't get any worse

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The great are great to us only because we are on our knees. Let us arise.
--Robert Collier

Glass half full, glass half full, that's what I keep telling myself too.

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spf, are you really 15? good post little man.