Who would you favour as next Carlton coach?

Big Kahuna Boot · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:27 pm

..don't see much of a problem snaggling an assistant coach from another(rival) club.. ..not when they're hungry for the senior role, and especially in Bluey's case where Micky Malty looks secure, and the emminent (well sooner or later) retiring of favoured Buckles who could be a good coach, and will prolly apprentice and stay with his pies..

blueman · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:28 pm **Posts:** 2220

I happen to agree with the feelings of Surreyblue.
T'will be between Voss and Ratten.

Ratten might win - because although Voss was the preferred candidate, a contractual issue prevents him from taking the job.

popeye · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:57 pm

Don't know if this has been put forward, but what about Damien Hardwick? He was a c$#$% of a player, doing good things at the Dawks.

Loyal Carltonian · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:09 pm

Even though I'm in the Voss corner I think a change is needed to re-invigorate the place and our onfield fortunes. Then again what if we do end up winning another 4 games (unlikely) and Pagan stays on.

This forum would go into meltdown.

phoenix johnson · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:23 pm

I reckon Chris Bond should be interviewed.

From all reports did extremely well in the interview process for the Saints job and Rocket Eade is a massive wrap for him.

Wolfe · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:25 pm

Will be out of Voss or Mckenna

Voss i belive has been spoken to may have been signed up as he cannot get involved in coaching until ed of Season 2007 due to being on Lions list and Media commitments.

If Voss hasnt been signed then Mckenna would be a high candidate

Both would be great for the Blues i think Mckenna would be a great get but wouldnt be dissapointed with Voss.

I am sure also Swan would know Mckenna very well also so that may influence his thinking but if Voss has been signed up then dosnt really matter

captain_rigs · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:52 pm

Jarusa wrote:

captain_rigs wrote:

Pagan is Gone by seasons end, nearly impossible to win 10 from here.

I was on the Voss wagon until i saw him throw a 'sneaky rat' punch on the news, respect level has dropped for him. I'd favour Guy Mckenna or Ratts. their CV's and playing acheivments do the talking.

The only VFL/AFL coach never to have punched another bloke would probably be Ian Stewart.

its one thing 'punching' someone (99% of us are culprits) but its another thing to 'sneako' someone. Just my opinion.

Kouta · **Posted:** Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:42 am

These articles are spot on.

AFL industry clueless on coaching - Jake Niall

Jake Niall wrote:

John Buchanan didn't play Test cricket. He wasn't even close. Bart Cummings didn't ride a Melbourne Cup winner. Don Talbot and Charlie Walsh, worldbeating coaches in swimming and cycling, didn't swim or ride with great distinction. Yet, in the AFL, there is an illogical view that one's playing ability is relevant to coaching prowess, when there is no evidence of a link

Jake Niall wrote:

There is an unspoken assumption that a superior footballer, with alpha male tendencies (Voss, Buckley), needs less of an apprenticeship than a player of more modest ability.

Again, this is ridiculous. One of these years, a club will disregard footy culture and hire someone with zero profile who can really coach, and it will steal a march on the clubs that are still wallowing in "profile."

"Footy culture", as a sage official once said, is an excuse for not pursuing excellence.

Inexperience the hurdle for Voss - Greg Baum

Greg Baum wrote:

Voss wants to coach, and will. But there is a compelling reason why it ought not to be next year, and it has nothing to do with a pub brawl. Coaching now is not simply a matter of instruction and exhortation. It is a learned craft, demanding management skills as well as an inspirational touch. Even the greatest players need to study to succeed at it.

A staple of every season is the story of the injured player who sits in the coach's box for a game and emerges with a bewildered look to say that he had no idea of what the job entailed.

Greats in all fields defy orthodoxy, but professionalism slowly is giving lie to that notion. Apart from the veterans, all current AFL coaches have done their indentures. Voss was an incomparable footballer, but that does not make him a readymade coach.

keogh · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am **Posts:** 5990

In my view Voss is a huge risk because he hasnt coached. The fact that he has spent his year in the media smacks of arrogance in my opinion.

The assault charge doesnt help either

Its crucial that this appointment is the right one.

Interviews are almost a waste of time.

Talk to people in the know

Which assistant coaches do the job well at other AFL . That info can be found without interviewing other people

Does it have to be an assistant coach at an AFL club?

The 3 criteria that must be met are
That the bloke is a young coach with fresh ideas and a game plan that works
That he has an understanding of the workings of an AFL club and
Has been a senior coach somewhere with success

I reckon if coaches have only had experience as an assistant at other AFL clubs then that is a negative.

I WILL THROW 2 NAMES INTO THE RING

BRENDAN MCCARTHY

Has been an assistant at Geelong for 8 years. Was at Richmond before that and coached Ocean Grove to 4 successive flags in the 90s. Has been involved in developing young players in his roles at AFL level. I used to live in Ocean Grove when he was the coach . Brilliant communicator

ALAN RICHARDSON

Has coached East Burwood to sucessive flags in 99 an 00. Has been at other AFL clubs and is now at the Pies developing the younger talent there with obvious success.

Why dont these guys get a mentioned. Hey??????

Are we going to fall into the trap of focusing on one guy(Voss) who is a huge risk . Whether they have had a successful career as a player or whether they are a smoothie in the media tents of this world should have little if any effect on whether they get the job or not.

The job of Senior coach at Carlton should be open to everyone .

Thats where the interview process has relevance

Who wants the job and go from there with specific criteria

Lets hope that Sticks has nothing to do with the selection process. To my way of thinking I think he hasnt got a flower clue.

Lets not be so narrow minded and hand the job to a guy who is an AFL legendary coach/player with a handshake deal like we did with Pagan and then we are stuck with a dud for 3 to 5 years

Lets not do a Richmond and hand the job to a faker like Wallace who the Tiggies are stuck with for 5 years.

This is a crucial decision. Has the club learnt from its mistakes????????

Blue Bird · **Posted:** Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:23 am

Thought Jake Niall's article was on the money.

...anyway maybe its all a pipedream as according to the paper today "Carlton coach Pagan, contracted until the end of 2008, gave every indication he would be dragged kicking and screaming from Princes Park."

bluechucky · **Joined:** Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:29 am **Posts:** 13629

BlueIce wrote:

These articles are spot on.

AFL industry clueless on coaching - Jake Niall

Jake Niall wrote:

John Buchanan didn't play Test cricket. He wasn't even close. Bart Cummings didn't ride a Melbourne Cup winner. Don Talbot and Charlie Walsh, worldbeating coaches in swimming and cycling, didn't swim or ride with great distinction. Yet, in the AFL, there is an illogical view that one's playing ability is relevant to coaching prowess, when there is no evidence of a link

Jake Niall wrote:

There is an unspoken assumption that a superior footballer, with alpha male tendencies (Voss, Buckley), needs less of an apprenticeship than a player of more modest ability.

Again, this is ridiculous. One of these years, a club will disregard footy culture and hire someone with zero profile who can really coach, and it will steal a march on the clubs that are still wallowing in "profile."

"Footy culture", as a sage official once said, is an excuse for not pursuing excellence.

Inexperience the hurdle for Voss - Greg Baum

Greg Baum wrote:

Voss wants to coach, and will. But there is a compelling reason why it ought not to be next year, and it has nothing to do with a pub brawl. Coaching now is not simply a matter of instruction and exhortation. It is a learned craft, demanding management skills as well as an inspirational touch. Even the greatest players need to study to succeed at it.

A staple of every season is the story of the injured player who sits in the coach's box for a game and emerges with a bewildered look to say that he had no idea of what the job entailed.

Greats in all fields defy orthodoxy, but professionalism slowly is giving lie to that notion. Apart from the veterans, all current AFL coaches have done their indentures. Voss was an incomparable footballer, but that does not make him a readymade coach.

Interestingly my prefered candidate, and one that Niall dismisses - Buckley - has had coaching training in the states.

camel · **Posted:** Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:35 am

I must admit the whole pub brawl thing has turned me off Voss slightly. It's not a good look at all.

Bucks is still one I'm keen on though, I'm still with you there chucky! :-D

JohnM · **Posted:** Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:06 pm

To be fair to Voss though Keogh, he couldn't join a club this year because he's still contracted to the Brisbane Lions.

Also, in addition to his media work, he's also been working as a coach with the AIS football program.

Jarusa · **Joined:** Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am **Posts:** 23123

... and Voss is also doing a management course at (what some consider) Melbourne's most prestigious Business School.

Kouta · **Posted:** Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:22 pm

JohnM wrote:

To be fair to Voss though Keogh, he couldn't join a club this year because he's still contracted to the Brisbane Lions.

Also, in addition to his media work, he's also been working as a coach with the AIS football program.

Our side will resemble a TAC cup side in two years time, so maybe Voss is the right man for the job.

Elwood Blues1 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am **Posts:** 4827

I think Buckley will do two years under Malthouse as an assistant in a Parkin/Brittain situation and then take over....Malthouse doing a Chris Anderson and retiring due to ongoing health issues.

While I still have Voss as my preferred option I would like to see a field of candidates go through the interview process and hear what they have to offer.
While Voss appears the obvious choice with many including myself I'd like to make him earn it at the interview table.....

BlueDW · **Posted:** Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:43 pm

Jarusa wrote:

... and Voss is also doing a management course at (what some consider) Melbourne's most prestigious Business School.

So what? Last time I looked, managing a group of footballers had nothing to do with profit and loss statements!!!

Jarusa · **Joined:** Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am **Posts:** 23123

BlueDW wrote:

Jarusa wrote:

... and Voss is also doing a management course at (what some consider) Melbourne's most prestigious Business School.

So what? Last time I looked, managing a group of footballers had nothing to do with profit and loss statements!!!

Management is much more than just profit and loss statements, it is also about managing people.

Maybe you will find that out one day.

BlueDW · **Posted:** Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:54 pm

Jarusa wrote:

BlueDW wrote:

[color=blue]

Jarusa wrote:

... and Voss is also doing a management course at (what some consider) Melbourne's most prestigious Business School.

So what? Last time I looked, managing a group of footballers had nothing to do with profit and loss statements!!!

Management is much more than just profit and loss statements, it is also about managing people.

Maybe you will find that out one day.

[/color]

Me thinks you are confusing Management to Leadership...2 vastly different things, but you can think differently if you wish!!! BTW, did Voss learn that right cross at this "Management School" to which you prefer???

And as far as finding this out one day what managing people is all about, I have been working at a leadership training company for most of the previous 10 years or so as a consultant, I think that is one subject that I am quite up to speed at!!! Thanks for your concern though!!! I appreciate it, really I do.

Elwood Blues1 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am **Posts:** 4827

Profit and Loss would relate to Accounting.......

Agree with Jarusa....Management is about managing people, getting them to work together for the best result which is what the present incumbent has had difficulty doing.....

Voss obviously appreciates it is more than leadership required and wants to learn some new skills ...nothing wrong with that IMHO...

Who would you favour as next Carlton coach?

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