To tank or not to tank???

Bearzo · **Joined:** Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:56 pm **Posts:** 230

nytdog wrote:

Synbad, again you present your irrelevant, subjective opinion. Provide some facts instead of repeating the same old garbage.

No one here is saying that Kouta or Lance are going to lead us to the next flag. All we are (repeatedly) saying is that we need to play our best team ATM in order to be competitive and look after/develop the kids. What about that don't you understand? If you can honestly tell me that there is a kid that will perform better than Lance or Kouta who is missing out this week (with some proof rather than an opinion), I'll eat my words.

But I know you can't (objectively), because there isn't. Yes we all want to see Bower in the team, but that's when he deserves it and not in place of someone that is going to help our team and kids improve (Kouta).

Spot on NYTDog. Your analysis is the best i have read on this site. At least you have presented some facts to support your contention.

If Carlton's center half foward has achieved 17+ possessions and 3 goals weeks in a row, then its tough to argue he should be replaced at the moment.

Synbad, it appears to me that you spend time down at the club... training sessions or whatever. Have you not realised how much respect and adulation carlton players have for Kouta. Just having him on the ground on Saturday will inspire a more aggressive and competitive attitude in the team.

Lace Out · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2007 9:19 pm

Bearzo wrote:

nytdog wrote:

Synbad, again you present your irrelevant, subjective opinion. Provide some facts instead of repeating the same old garbage.

No one here is saying that Kouta or Lance are going to lead us to the next flag. All we are (repeatedly) saying is that we need to play our best team ATM in order to be competitive and look after/develop the kids. What about that don't you understand? If you can honestly tell me that there is a kid that will perform better than Lance or Kouta who is missing out this week (with some proof rather than an opinion), I'll eat my words.

But I know you can't (objectively), because there isn't. Yes we all want to see Bower in the team, but that's when he deserves it and not in place of someone that is going to help our team and kids improve (Kouta).

Spot on NYTDog. Your analysis is the best i have read on this site. At least you have presented some facts to support your contention.

If Carlton's center half foward has achieved 17+ possessions and 3 goals weeks in a row, then its tough to argue he should be replaced at the moment.

Synbad, it appears to me that you spend time down at the club... training sessions or whatever. Have you not realised how much respect and adulation carlton players have for Kouta. Just having him on the ground on Saturday will inspire a more aggressive and competitive attitude in the team.

While i agree with your theory, my concern is what if the players are in awe of the Kouta that he used to be many years ago, and not so much the Kouta he is now.... Are they then still inspired by him?

Synbad · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2007 9:27 pm

Firearm Fevs wrote:

Bearzo wrote:

nytdog wrote:

Synbad, again you present your irrelevant, subjective opinion. Provide some facts instead of repeating the same old garbage.

No one here is saying that Kouta or Lance are going to lead us to the next flag. All we are (repeatedly) saying is that we need to play our best team ATM in order to be competitive and look after/develop the kids. What about that don't you understand? If you can honestly tell me that there is a kid that will perform better than Lance or Kouta who is missing out this week (with some proof rather than an opinion), I'll eat my words.

But I know you can't (objectively), because there isn't. Yes we all want to see Bower in the team, but that's when he deserves it and not in place of someone that is going to help our team and kids improve (Kouta).

Spot on NYTDog. Your analysis is the best i have read on this site. At least you have presented some facts to support your contention.

If Carlton's center half foward has achieved 17+ possessions and 3 goals weeks in a row, then its tough to argue he should be replaced at the moment.

Synbad, it appears to me that you spend time down at the club... training sessions or whatever. Have you not realised how much respect and adulation carlton players have for Kouta. Just having him on the ground on Saturday will inspire a more aggressive and competitive attitude in the team.

While i agree with your theory, my concern is what if the players are in awe of the Kouta that he used to be many years ago, and not so much the Kouta he is now.... Are they then still inspired by him?

Time stands still for some people...

I love how the losingest ever Carlton Captain of all time.. who has inspired some of the worst Carlton losses of all time... is going to suddenly transplant some of his unbridled inspiration into his younger teammates..... according to nytdog stationed out in NYC ...

Now i prefer to go with the facts that Kouta will have just as much time on the bench as he will on the ground.. and he wont run with his man or get to the contests.. because that is the precedent Kouta has set over the last couple of years .

nytdog · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2007 10:45 pm

Synbad wrote:

Firearm Fevs wrote:

Bearzo wrote:

nytdog wrote:

Synbad, again you present your irrelevant, subjective opinion. Provide some facts instead of repeating the same old garbage.

No one here is saying that Kouta or Lance are going to lead us to the next flag. All we are (repeatedly) saying is that we need to play our best team ATM in order to be competitive and look after/develop the kids. What about that don't you understand? If you can honestly tell me that there is a kid that will perform better than Lance or Kouta who is missing out this week (with some proof rather than an opinion), I'll eat my words.

But I know you can't (objectively), because there isn't. Yes we all want to see Bower in the team, but that's when he deserves it and not in place of someone that is going to help our team and kids improve (Kouta).

Spot on NYTDog. Your analysis is the best i have read on this site. At least you have presented some facts to support your contention.

If Carlton's center half foward has achieved 17+ possessions and 3 goals weeks in a row, then its tough to argue he should be replaced at the moment.

Synbad, it appears to me that you spend time down at the club... training sessions or whatever. Have you not realised how much respect and adulation carlton players have for Kouta. Just having him on the ground on Saturday will inspire a more aggressive and competitive attitude in the team.

While i agree with your theory, my concern is what if the players are in awe of the Kouta that he used to be many years ago, and not so much the Kouta he is now.... Are they then still inspired by him?

Time stands still for some people...

I love how the losingest ever Carlton Captain of all time.. who has inspired some of the worst Carlton losses of all time... is going to suddenly transplant some of his unbridled inspiration into his younger teammates..... according to nytdog stationed out in NYC ...

Now i prefer to go with the facts that Kouta will have just as much time on the bench as he will on the ground.. and he wont run with his man or get to the contests.. because that is the precedent Kouta has set over the last couple of years .

Synbad, I'm a little confused here. Are we talking about the same Kouta that:
- has had to lead the worst team to ever represent the Blues in terms of quality players - hence the poor win/loss record?
- WON THE BEST AND FAIREST IN 2005!
- Has averaged 19 posessions and 4 marks a game for the past 2 years.
- Showed unbelievable character to come back from serious injuries at an age when most players pack it in rather than stick around to fight for their club.
- Who bleeds blue blood and will play with passion to help his club.

Sybad, I know you are an overweight, couch potato jealous of Kouta's tremendous god given phsique and talent, but get over your yourself and show some respect to a guy that deserves it. But then again, youngsters don't look up to champions of the club..... according to synbad stationed on his couch in LaLa Land ...

Lace Out · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2007 11:43 pm

Quote:

- has had to lead the worst team to ever represent the Blues in terms of quality players - hence the poor win/loss record?
- WON THE BEST AND FAIREST IN 2005!

Highlighting that he won the best and fairest is comical after the first line....

Quote:

- Has averaged 19 posessions and 4 marks a game for the past 2 years.
- Showed unbelievable character to come back from serious injuries at an age when most players pack it in rather than stick around to fight for their club.
- Who bleeds blue blood and will play with passion to help his club.

Averaged 19 possesions and 4 marks in the wooden spoon years. How much do you think players like James Hird, and Michael voss would of averaged??

Showed unbelievable character to take an easy paycheck, considering he works far less than most players in the squad....

Bleeds blue blood? No doubt, but i have heard lesser likes speak with more convivtion..

Play with passion???? Looks flat at best most times, which is unacceptable from a leader of his stature..

nytdog · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2007 11:54 pm

Firearm Fevs wrote:

Showed unbelievable character to take an easy paycheck, considering he works far less than most players in the squad....

Easy pay check! Have you even played football? Nothing easy about doing a pre season at age 33-34, and playing in a shit team where at 32 your carrying the team on your shoulders and win the B&F.

Easy is the pay check you earn, sitting behind a desk all day.

Lace Out · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 12:22 am

nytdog wrote:

Firearm Fevs wrote:

Showed unbelievable character to take an easy paycheck, considering he works far less than most players in the squad....

Easy pay check! Have you even played football? Nothing easy about doing a pre season at age 33-34, and playing in a shit team where at 32 your carrying the team on your shoulders and win the B&F.

Easy is the pay check you earn, sitting behind a desk all day.

Hahahahaha....

Yes i do play football, and i know what a pre season is exactly like..

In fact i even chose to do the pre season this year, even though i am not playing, as my wife is on maternity leave and i cannot afford to get injured.

And my job is as physical as it gets. It leaves me stuffed after a 9 hr day.
Flower sitting behind a desk...

How's that for commitment from a 31 year old who doesn't get paid for playing footy.. :wink:

Oh how i wish i were Kouta, earning great cash and playing for the best club in the world....

Synbad · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2007 8:36 am

nytdog wrote:

Firearm Fevs wrote:

Showed unbelievable character to take an easy paycheck, considering he works far less than most players in the squad....

Easy pay check! Have you even played football? Nothing easy about doing a pre season at age 33-34, and playing in a shit team where at 32 your carrying the team on your shoulders and win the B&F.

Easy is the pay check you earn, sitting behind a desk all day.

The day Kouta runs with the flight of the ball when he knows someone is going to hammer him coming the other way let me know......

15 years and never once has he put his body on the line...

Ive seen Bentick do it...

You sound very young......... :-D

Jarusa · **Joined:** Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am **Posts:** 23123

Synbad wrote:

15 years and never once has he put his body on the line...

Stretching the point a tad here Synbad. :wink:

Anyone that burrows into the bottom of packs for years on end is putting their body on the line. One of Kouta's knees can tell you that.

Sydney Blue · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2007 8:48 am

Synbad wrote:

nytdog wrote:

Firearm Fevs wrote:

Showed unbelievable character to take an easy paycheck, considering he works far less than most players in the squad....

Easy pay check! Have you even played football? Nothing easy about doing a pre season at age 33-34, and playing in a shit team where at 32 your carrying the team on your shoulders and win the B&F.

Easy is the pay check you earn, sitting behind a desk all day.

The day Kouta runs with the flight of the ball when he knows someone is going to hammer him coming the other way let me know......

15 years and never once has he put his body on the line...

Ive seen Bentick do it...

You sound very young......... :-D

Synbad that just ridiculous Bentick will never ever reach the heights that Kouta did in his hey day - sure Kouts is just making up the numbers now and will spend most of th time on the the bench.

But the poor mans Jimmy Punkett willl never tear apart a game like Kouta once did - Bentick is an average trier and nothing else . The reason why his tacle count is so high is because his opponent always beats him to the ball

dannyboy · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2007 8:49 am

let's not let facts get in the way of a revelation.

Solomon's got nothing on Synners - he'd have drawn and quartered the poor squalling babe, even after the mother relinquished her claim.

camel · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2007 8:57 am

So, if we tank this year, are we allowed to start winning next year? Or are we just transfixed on becoming the new St Kilda where coming last is the only goal we set ourselves?

GAVROMAN · **Joined:** Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:29 pm **Posts:** 391

No, just this year and thats it. We will never qualify for a PP again so lets take advantage of it.

Why cant some of u see how important it is to our long term success??? Had Hawthorn missed out on the PP in 2004, they would have missed out on Franklin.

camel · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2007 10:37 am

I thought I heard that last year.

I'm an agnostic tanker. No, that's not rhyming slang either. :lol:

It's just that in this whole debate the pro tankers never seem to indicate when it's okay to start winning. All you ever hear is lose, lose, lose.

Kinda sounds a bit depressing after a while. We love our club because it's been successful, yet now we clap when lose and boo when we win.

Something's arse about there. That's all.

Lace Out · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2007 11:10 am

GAVROMAN wrote:

No, just this year and thats it. We will never qualify for a PP again so lets take advantage of it.

Why cant some of u see how important it is to our long term success??? Had Hawthorn missed out on the PP in 2004, they would have missed out on Franklin.

If we get a PP this year we will be eligable for a first round PP again next year.... It will never end :lol:

nytdog · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2007 1:45 pm

Firearms you make the perfect point. It will never end. If we can get it this year, we can get it next year and so on and so forth. Losing is for losers. And I guess Synbad advocating losing suggests that Synbad is a ?? I'll let you decide.

By the way Synbad get a copy of any one of Kouta's year 2000 games and watch a real player at work. The best individual year I have ever witnessed. Bentick wouldn't be Kouta's water boy in 2000.

Lace Out · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2007 1:59 pm

Quote:

Firearms you make the perfect point. It will never end. If we can get it this year, we can get it next year and so on and so forth. Losing is for losers. And I guess Synbad advocating losing suggests that Synbad is a ?? I'll let you decide

.

I agree losing is for losers, however in this instance we are in a buisness, and as they say buisness is buisness....

Could you imagine no Murphy Gibbs and Walker??

The real question is can we afford to not get a first round PP this year???

If you believe we don't need the PP, then you absolutely belive we have enough young talent to take us to where we need to be in order to play with the big boys...

Remember a 1st rnd PP is as good as a chance as you get to pick up a Franchise player with the way players are filtered through the system these days..

Wolfe · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2007 7:44 pm

we will finish where we finish if we not good enough we will get draft picks if we improve we will get lesser draft picks

The biggest change to this list and club will come when we change to a more youthful, new ideas coach who can identify and relate to our young list and help grow and deveope it. add to that a coach who also comunicates with the Bullants squad via a assistant who is working for the senior team not located at a different ground or other side of PP

If you want to see change to this club and list the source is the coach not the kids or kouta, Lance ect They have some affect but the coach being payed mega bucks and delivering spoons must be running out of excuses.

Electric Blue · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:12 am **Posts:** 10076

Firearm Fevs wrote:

GAVROMAN wrote:

No, just this year and thats it. We will never qualify for a PP again so lets take advantage of it.

Why cant some of u see how important it is to our long term success??? Had Hawthorn missed out on the PP in 2004, they would have missed out on Franklin.

If we get a PP this year we will be eligable for a first round PP again next year.... It will never end :lol:

camel · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2007 8:48 pm

Wolfe wrote:

we will finish where we finish if we not good enough we will get draft picks if we improve we will get lesser draft picks

The biggest change to this list and club will come when we change to a more youthful, new ideas coach who can identify and relate to our young list and help grow and deveope it. add to that a coach who also comunicates with the Bullants squad via a assistant who is working for the senior team not located at a different ground or other side of PP

If you want to see change to this club and list the source is the coach not the kids or kouta, Lance ect They have some affect but the coach being payed mega bucks and delivering spoons must be running out of excuses.

I'm slowly turning in this regard too.

I'd been on the fence re Pagan, with my legs hanging over on his side. But right now, I'm standing on that fence just checking to see if the grass is greener on the other side.

To tank or not to tank???

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