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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:44 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Vain wrote:
Posters can mock the concept of Leading Teams but the runs are on the board.
Leading Teams have had an ongoing relationship with Sydney for the past 12 years and Geelong for the past 7 years. Its no coincidence those clubs have the strongest and most successful cultures within the AFL.

The problem with the concept is people are told truths they aren't secure or mature enough to hear. Weak organisations bow to those people, strong organisations bring them into line or weed them out.
That's what Collingwood are going through now. I have no doubt they'll be a better and stronger club once the process is completed.
The concept also erodes the powerbase of autocrats with an organisation.
For all of those reasons you wont see the board or the coach of Carlton bringing LT back anytime soon.


There was some discussion on AFL360 last night and Cam Mooney said LT no longer works with Geelong, but your point still remains valid and according to Mooney the reason LT is no longer at Gellong is because the way of thinking is so entrenched that it's just not required.

Geelong and Sydney are very good examples of club's with strong cultures. When I first heard we were working with LT that was the aspiration I had, that Carlton, too, would develop a genuine team resolve and mental toughness.

I'm still waiting.

Mick has only been there for a few months, but if LT and/or a coach of Mick's standing in the game cannot get the playing group to man up, then we may as well wipe out the next 5-10 years and start again post 2020.

Perhaps that's being a bit melodramatic, but why do we continually fail against top 8 teams? Why do we only win 1 in 3 games at Etihad?

Whether the "line in the sand" game for Hawthorn really worked or not is debatable, but what it has done is given the club a very public reference point that they won't be pushed around. If nothing else it has given them a basis for belief that they can compete against anyone.

We're going into this game against the Hawks expecting to lose. Probability says that's fair enough, but even Mick's comments earlier in the week had a degree of acceptance about what will come tomorrow night. If Mick isn't even trotting out the "don't write us off, it's a two-horse race" cliches then that must filter down the chain.

And Synbad is right too, the hardness is not there off the field either.

The whole club is just too bloody soft.

If Melbourne won't take Kennett, perhaps we should?! :eek: :donk:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:02 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Too many introverts


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:33 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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camelboy wrote:
There was some discussion on AFL360 last night and Cam Mooney said LT no longer works with Geelong, but your point still remains valid and according to Mooney the reason LT is no longer at Gellong is because the way of thinking is so entrenched that it's just not required.



Thats a great outcome hey?
The culture they've created is so strong that LT are no longer required. Thats the point of the LT philosophy.

Heres an interview from Mooney where he credits Leading Teams with the turnaround in Geelongs fortunes.

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio ... art-3/3684

Personally, I think its a fantastic concept and our club is poorer for not having the balls to see it through. Its interesting people talk about introverts. Being an introvert isn't due to your DNA. Its as much about your environment.
We have an environment where being an introvert is accepted. You can't change change peoples behaviours without putting measures in place to facilitate it.
They wont wake up tomorrow and decide not to be an introvert anymore.

Its a lost opportunity IMHO and the club is showing its willingness to compromise by not continuing the program.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I doubt we'll see it at Carlton again. No coincidence that Collingwood adopted it when MM knicked off

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Vain wrote:
Personally, I think its a fantastic concept and our club is poorer for not having the balls to see it through. Its interesting people talk about introverts. Being an introvert isn't due to your DNA. Its as much about your environment.
We have an environment where being an introvert is accepted. You can't change change peoples behaviours without putting measures in place to facilitate it.
They wont wake up tomorrow and decide not to be an introvert anymore.


Perfectly highlighted by Garlett not "belly aching" about that goal last week.

I'm not upset at Mick's defence of Garlett, that was fair enough I think.

Yet, the fact that Jeff didn't fire up and demand a review shows an underlying level of acceptance at, meh, whatever. Look back at SOS remonstrating all the time, as one example.

We keep hearing about all our introverts. Fine, let them be like that. That may an admirable trait in everyday life. But game day is not everyday life.

Just give them a massive over dose of white line fever. Make them fight for every last contest, no matter what.

They need a mental edge that other clubs, other players, don't have.

We appear to be miles off that.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Blue Vain wrote:
camelboy wrote:
There was some discussion on AFL360 last night and Cam Mooney said LT no longer works with Geelong, but your point still remains valid and according to Mooney the reason LT is no longer at Gellong is because the way of thinking is so entrenched that it's just not required.



Thats a great outcome hey?
The culture they've created is so strong that LT are no longer required. Thats the point of the LT philosophy.

Heres an interview from Mooney where he credits Leading Teams with the turnaround in Geelongs fortunes.

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio ... art-3/3684

Personally, I think its a fantastic concept and our club is poorer for not having the balls to see it through. Its interesting people talk about introverts. Being an introvert isn't due to your DNA. Its as much about your environment.
We have an environment where being an introvert is accepted. You can't change change peoples behaviours without putting measures in place to facilitate it.
They wont wake up tomorrow and decide not to be an introvert anymore.

Its a lost opportunity IMHO and the club is showing its willingness to compromise by not continuing the program.


Well, you failed psychology, then.

Being an introvert most definitely is an inherent condition. Of course, introverts can function just as well as extroverts but we all know it's more complex than simply having a coach around to psych you up. And, again, sport is its own beast and probably favours the extrovert. I don't care what way we deal with the situation as long as we deal with it but it is most definitely an innate one.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:25 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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I know plenty of introverts myself included who become extroverts once they cross the line.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:29 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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White line fever, paf.

Plenty of introverts are actors. Why? Because they get to lead another life and be someone else.

Football, to a similar extent, gives people a framework in which they can escape the banality of everyday life. It's true some people are introverted by nature, and if that's the case the club needs to work on addressing the issue so that it doesn't affect our competitiveness. That doesn't necessarily mean make then extroverts, either, just find a way to manage it.

Looking at the team as a broader issue, you could say the entire playing list is introverted—Mick has said this many times. In the highly unlikely event that we have an entire list of terribly introverted individuals the coaching staff has to try and reshape the list to have a more assertive personality.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:42 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Carlton =

[youtube]bu_XF8ty_Bo[/youtube]


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:49 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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camelboy wrote:
Looking at the team as a broader issue, you could say the entire playing list is introverted—Mick has said this many times. In the highly unlikely event that we have an entire list of terribly introverted individuals the coaching staff has to try and reshape the list to have a more assertive personality.


I don't think the terms 'introverted' and/or 'extroverted' are correct in this instance. Footy clubs today are, by and large, pretty similar. The people in them are pretty similar. But Leading Teams approached the Carlton situation very differently to any other. Ray McLean analysed Brett Ratten, sat next to him, held his hand and told him where he thought his office should be. Brett Ratten wanted involvement in all aspects of the football club. The CEO told him one thing and Ray McLean told him another. The bloke wasn't cut out to be the senior coach. The blame lies entirely with the President, whom was mates with the coach and was trying to appease his CEO. Sticks tries to please most people most of the time. His role is not peacemaker. His role is to crack skulls if need be, put ego's in their place, set strategy with the board and make sure the staff adhere to it. It didn't happen. I think everyone was confused. Leading Teams were probably happy to get out of there.

We don't have a list full of introverts.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:55 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Yes, I do very much subscribe to the well worn fish/head theory. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Pafloyul wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
camelboy wrote:
There was some discussion on AFL360 last night and Cam Mooney said LT no longer works with Geelong, but your point still remains valid and according to Mooney the reason LT is no longer at Gellong is because the way of thinking is so entrenched that it's just not required.



Thats a great outcome hey?
The culture they've created is so strong that LT are no longer required. Thats the point of the LT philosophy.

Heres an interview from Mooney where he credits Leading Teams with the turnaround in Geelongs fortunes.

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio ... art-3/3684

Personally, I think its a fantastic concept and our club is poorer for not having the balls to see it through. Its interesting people talk about introverts. Being an introvert isn't due to your DNA. Its as much about your environment.
We have an environment where being an introvert is accepted. You can't change change peoples behaviours without putting measures in place to facilitate it.
They wont wake up tomorrow and decide not to be an introvert anymore.

Its a lost opportunity IMHO and the club is showing its willingness to compromise by not continuing the program.


Well, you failed psychology, then.

Being an introvert most definitely is an inherent condition. Of course, introverts can function just as well as extroverts but we all know it's more complex than simply having a coach around to psych you up. And, again, sport is its own beast and probably favours the extrovert. I don't care what way we deal with the situation as long as we deal with it but it is most definitely an innate one.

I disagree. Do you have good studies that give evidence for this assertion?

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