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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:31 am 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 3:49 pm
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bondiblue wrote:
toddkurnski wrote:
The club went through the right process to appoint him. At the time, he had come from the right club playing the right structures with the stamp from his previous employer. Someone who could develop as a coach as the group developed. When interviewed I am certain he would have impressed. Just look at today.

As the young players were been brought in since the 2015 draft, I think he did a good job of creating an enjoyable environment for them to settle into. The general feel for me from the outside and based on player retention and contract extensions was that he seem to at the very least create a galvanised group prepared to play for each other. A place they wanted to stay and build something. There was no more smell of the rot of the Malthouse years.

What failed to happen in my opinion is the development of his coaching ability. He had an excuse last year, but with enough talent available through the first half this year he couldn’t pinch the wins needed to keep the belief in either his own development or the teams.

I think it was the right thing to do when he was appointed. I think today was the right thing to do. It hasn’t worked out, not through effort, but perhaps because of ability. We just haven’t shown what other teams (Cats, Tigers, Pies) have shown when they spared their coaches. It happens.

I look forward to who can bring the best out of the playing group, which I still think is dripping with talent. Someone please harness it and ride it home.



Wonderful read.

Measured. Sensible.

I think most Carltonians feel a similar way

:thumbsup:


:thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:40 am 
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Harry Vallence
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What the hell is Wrong with this club???

How F*** embarrassing last night to see the Club president having a go at Judd and saying I don't even know what he does at the club.... Is this for real???


The Entire Board needs to resign... we are sick of those Clowns..... Take your money and just leave us alone.....


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:44 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1650
If the choice is out of Bolton or Cripps.....I know who i'd choose.

The new coach may or may not be another bust there are no guarantees. Feel for Bolts but it was just not working out.

Fingers are pointed to SOS's list management and the coaching assistants and arguably rightly so........however name me an AFL club where a list is near flawless or where every coaching assistant is brilliant. It does not exist.

Bolton's failings are his failings just like SOS failings are his and the assistants theirs. In time they will also move on.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:48 am 
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Craig Bradley
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toddkurnski wrote:
The club went through the right process to appoint him. At the time, he had come from the right club playing the right structures with the stamp from his previous employer. Someone who could develop as a coach as the group developed. When interviewed I am certain he would have impressed. Just look at today.

As the young players were been brought in since the 2015 draft, I think he did a good job of creating an enjoyable environment for them to settle into. The general feel for me from the outside and based on player retention and contract extensions was that he seem to at the very least create a galvanised group prepared to play for each other. A place they wanted to stay and build something. There was no more smell of the rot of the Malthouse years.

What failed to happen in my opinion is the development of his coaching ability. He had an excuse last year, but with enough talent available through the first half this year he couldn’t pinch the wins needed to keep the belief in either his own development or the teams.

I think it was the right thing to do when he was appointed. I think today was the right thing to do. It hasn’t worked out, not through effort, but perhaps because of ability. We just haven’t shown what other teams (Cats, Tigers, Pies) have shown when they spared their coaches. It happens.

I look forward to who can bring the best out of the playing group, which I still think is dripping with talent. Someone please harness it and ride it home.


Highlighted is the bit I’m grappling with. What is the difference between what Bolts had at his disposal this year compared to last year?

The club’s expectation was that we’d win more games this year, but it failed to provide him with the resources (ie. experienced quality new players, aligned with need) to achieve that. Once we failed to land Shiel, and Docherty did his knee again, I think the club ought to have reset its expectations for 2019 because it was always difficult to see where the short term improvement was going to come from.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:00 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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I am amazed by the crap I am hearing in the media.

Before Bolton, the Madhouse era had destroyed the clubs credibility (which included the loss of quality players we should never have lost like Betts and Waite etc).

By the time the Bolton era had begun we could not attract any mature quality footballers to the club. We had only one choice and that was to recruit young and to try to secure the best mature footballers we could ... of course no quality mature footballers would come to our club.

I am not trying to excuse Bolton's strategies ... he was stubborn and his game plan was either poor, not communicated or non-existent ... but don't give me any crap about we went down the wrong recruiting path ... IT WAS THE ONLY OPTION.

What else could we have done? Please tell me?

An absolute cold boot of the club was not just necessary ... it was the only possible choice.

IMO to an extent, Bolton was a casualty of the rebuild. We will never know what he would have been like with a developed list.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:02 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8201
Sidefx wrote:
Personally, I’m embarrassed and mostly disappointed by the decision of the club today as it wreaks of “old Carlton” and I feel we are once again taking a step backwards to “allegedly” go forwards.

How can the board hold its head up when they are the one’s that made the decision to hire an assistant coach as head coach that has had no AFL playing experience. Then change 56 players in 3 years, remove pretty much all experienced players from our list and decimate our midfield fully knowing the new rule changes with runners and the need for experience. And as the final straw of incompetence and lack of proving we have changed at the top they chose to publicly sack a decent bloke rather than give him the opportunity to walk away like Brad Scott. A smarter decision would have been getting in another Neil Craig for him not a geriatric Walls that the game has passed by.

Some on here might think this is good for the club and I get the need for wins, but what if Teague doesn’t get any more wins for the year and we are no better off (which is most likely as he has done wonders for our forwards thus far), then what…sack everyone? To me this is a sad day and another blight on our once great club.

And my greatest fear is that we start loosing good kids like Crippa (even though OR thinks he’ll stay), you could see clearly how devastated he was losing his mentor in the presser. We better hope BB doesn’t move west as an assistant. And I’m pretty sure there will be more kids in the same boat questioning our club, contracted or not. And what about Andrew Russel who came across most likely for BB.

Let’s just hope I’m wrong with the above and things change, otherwise you can forget us attracting any A grade midfield talent at the end of the year and then we are still on the same journey as Mark has conveniently pointed out in the presser and no better off.

If any one has questioned the integrity and passion Bolton has for our club and the players, then tell me what sacked coach would sit through 20min of that uninspiring and sometimes contradicting dribble by Mark and Cain.

Let’s just hope the powers to be don’t hire Brad Scott because to me this is another Malthouse decision. And if they do, I will still follow the club but I will not be renewing any of the memberships in my house.

Good luck Bolts on your new future and please don’t take too many players or flog us too much at what ever club you go to.


He failed. 4 wins the last 43, bottom of the ladder at 1-10, what part of failed don't you get. Anyone with half a brain could see it wasn't working. You don't look at the scoreboard, the ladder or watch us play? You got it wrong, backed the wrong horse. Even the club gave up on him eventually. You enjoy the shit we served up? Laughable!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:10 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Bolton is a really good guy and I'm sure he has a place at a footy club - just not as head coach. Unlike others here, I wish him all the success he can achieve in an AFL career either as coach or assistant.

The AFL isn't a zero-sum game. I'm more than happy for him to be a successful coach at another club - there's plenty of opportunities for us to also succeed in this comp without wishing for his failure.

We can only concern ourselves with what's best for us, and unfortunately, Bolts wasn't working out.

Good luck. I wish him well.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:17 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Dodo27 wrote:
What the hell is Wrong with this club???

How F*** embarrassing last night to see the Club president having a go at Judd and saying I don't even know what he does at the club.... Is this for real???


The Entire Board needs to resign... we are sick of those Clowns..... Take your money and just leave us alone.....


Where was this comment made???

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:19 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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camelboy wrote:
Dodo27 wrote:
What the hell is Wrong with this club???

How F*** embarrassing last night to see the Club president having a go at Judd and saying I don't even know what he does at the club.... Is this for real???


The Entire Board needs to resign... we are sick of those Clowns..... Take your money and just leave us alone.....


Where was this comment made???


Mark MacLure made that comment yesterday.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:31 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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The club is saying through their actions that everyone is doing their job well except for the head coach - and that's why we're not winning as many games as we should be.

Sounds to me like we've learnt nothing in the past 20 years.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:32 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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BigKev wrote:
The club is saying through their actions that everyone is doing their job well except for the head coach - and that's why we're not winning as many games as we should be.

Sounds to me like we've learnt nothing in the past 20 years.


What's your assessment of the situation?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:12 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
I am sorry to see Bolts go, but after the last few games, there was no other choice on the table.

Whether or not you agree with the rebuild strategy, the club is 100% committed to it and last year was about picking the last of the kids with a view to trade out this years first round pick, even if was a top 3 for a top end talented player to help the kids improve.

The win loss ratio was going to jeopardize attracting that talent to our club, question is whether not knowing who is going to be coach will result in the same outcome.

It would appear through teague taking on the caretaker coach that the club wants to free up the players to see what they can do without the rigorous structures that Bolts was coaching and if we can get some wins, bit like the bombers did last year when their season was shot.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:18 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I'm getting by telling myself that those in charge know better than we do (hard to believe, I know) what was going on behind closed doors.

Seems bringing in a mentor or better assistants wasn't deemed a solution, so perhaps the problem was deemed to be with Bolts, and more importantly, how the playing group regarded him as a coach (not as a person).

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:25 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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The Duke wrote:
BigKev wrote:
The club is saying through their actions that everyone is doing their job well except for the head coach - and that's why we're not winning as many games as we should be.

Sounds to me like we've learnt nothing in the past 20 years.


What's your assessment of the situation?


Wow Duke - that's the most generous response I've ever had. Cheers!

I think that the club has panicked and yielded to outside pressure. I suspect that the board and senior management started to fear for their own positions, or even worse their "reputations". Now they can puff their chests out like big men and make big statements like "I don't accept failure". This is not a strong decision. A strong decision would've been to gather everyone together and reinforce that we're a club, we're going through a difficult time, we believe everyone here is capable of great things and we're going to back you all in. No one's getting sacked - let's sort it out together.

That would've taken courage. Far easier just to pick one person and sack them, (and therefore give everyone else the easy out). Sadly this seems to be the Carlton way - so around we go again.

I'll make one qualification to my rant: I'm not part of the inner sanctum and have made a number of assumptions regarding the relationships between Bolton, the other coaches and the players which I have assumed to be good.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:40 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I don't think SOS can continue as list manager with two - and potentially three - sons on the list.

I'm not overly critical of the job he's done so far. I think he's done ok, but it's too much of a conflict.

I know it won't happen but I'd thank SOS for his services and give Agresta the job as list manager and ask Bolton to be head of the young player development program which these days is so important.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:43 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:13 pm
Posts: 1157
Location: Narre Warren VIC
camelboy wrote:
Dodo27 wrote:
What the hell is Wrong with this club???

How F*** embarrassing last night to see the Club president having a go at Judd and saying I don't even know what he does at the club.... Is this for real???


The Entire Board needs to resign... we are sick of those Clowns..... Take your money and just leave us alone.....


Where was this comment made???



“I don’t know what Chris Judd has done,” Maclure said. “I work in a business where people question us every day. The numbers come through and if they are not so good why aren’t they on the phone to them? Why aren’t they asking where are we at here?

“I’m not certain whether Chris Judd has done that or not. He’s the director of football and I don’t think he’s even been there.”


Link: https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/more- ... dfebbe8dfb


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:44 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 3581
aboynamedsue wrote:
toddkurnski wrote:
The club went through the right process to appoint him. At the time, he had come from the right club playing the right structures with the stamp from his previous employer. Someone who could develop as a coach as the group developed. When interviewed I am certain he would have impressed. Just look at today.

As the young players were been brought in since the 2015 draft, I think he did a good job of creating an enjoyable environment for them to settle into. The general feel for me from the outside and based on player retention and contract extensions was that he seem to at the very least create a galvanised group prepared to play for each other. A place they wanted to stay and build something. There was no more smell of the rot of the Malthouse years.

What failed to happen in my opinion is the development of his coaching ability. He had an excuse last year, but with enough talent available through the first half this year he couldn’t pinch the wins needed to keep the belief in either his own development or the teams.

I think it was the right thing to do when he was appointed. I think today was the right thing to do. It hasn’t worked out, not through effort, but perhaps because of ability. We just haven’t shown what other teams (Cats, Tigers, Pies) have shown when they spared their coaches. It happens.

I look forward to who can bring the best out of the playing group, which I still think is dripping with talent. Someone please harness it and ride it home.


Highlighted is the bit I’m grappling with. What is the difference between what Bolts had at his disposal this year compared to last year?

The club’s expectation was that we’d win more games this year, but it failed to provide him with the resources (ie. experienced quality new players, aligned with need) to achieve that. Once we failed to land Shiel, and Docherty did his knee again, I think the club ought to have reset its expectations for 2019 because it was always difficult to see where the short term improvement was going to come from.


I understand those that feel that way. You can make the case that

1. He had poor assistant coaches
2. He lacked good senior players
3. He copped injuries to key players

My feeling is, I can agree with all the above and can see them as mitigating factors for why he hasn’t been able to win games, but the last 4 out of 5 weeks we have again produced football played to a game plan that is unable to find a path, any path, to victory and in fact look further away now than we did 18 months ago. There needed to be natural improvement after a decent preseason for most players. There wasn’t.

Even historically bad teams have done better. An Essendon* side banned for drug use, made to play with top up players was able to grind out similar results.

As others have said. Bolton was a good person. Whenever I watched videos of him with the players he reminded me of my U/16 coach, in a good way. Really positive, always looking to unlock the best inside people, asking people to push themselves and play not only for yourself but for your team mates. That’s all great but the game plan, whatever it was, was producing results below a bar that was only inches higher and he just couldn’t make up the difference and I think, along with what looks like the players and the administration, couldn’t see how he could do that even if all the points above were resolved for him.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:48 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:01 pm
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Location: The Brown Wedge
BigKev wrote:
The Duke wrote:
BigKev wrote:
The club is saying through their actions that everyone is doing their job well except for the head coach - and that's why we're not winning as many games as we should be.

Sounds to me like we've learnt nothing in the past 20 years.


What's your assessment of the situation?


Wow Duke - that's the most generous response I've ever had. Cheers!

I think that the club has panicked and yielded to outside pressure. I suspect that the board and senior management started to fear for their own positions, or even worse their "reputations". Now they can puff their chests out like big men and make big statements like "I don't accept failure". This is not a strong decision. A strong decision would've been to gather everyone together and reinforce that we're a club, we're going through a difficult time, we believe everyone here is capable of great things and we're going to back you all in. No one's getting sacked - let's sort it out together.

That would've taken courage. Far easier just to pick one person and sack them, (and therefore give everyone else the easy out). Sadly this seems to be the Carlton way - so around we go again.

I'll make one qualification to my rant: I'm not part of the inner sanctum and have made a number of assumptions regarding the relationships between Bolton, the other coaches and the players which I have assumed to be good.


Okay - first comment - I have no beef with anyone.

I think you've made many assumptions there of how people feel and what they've decided based on not much than a feeling. It's clear we're not getting the best out of this playing group. This article seems pretty close to the money IMO https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/wha ... 51u11.html

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:54 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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The Duke wrote:

.... This article seems pretty close to the money IMO https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/wha ... 51u11.html


Does the recruiter even know who DeKoning is ..?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:58 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Rexy wrote:
The Duke wrote:

.... This article seems pretty close to the money IMO https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/wha ... 51u11.html


Does the recruiter even know who DeKoning is ..?


Yeah that was weird.

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