Agree with this wholeheartedly - all the teachers who couldnt be bothered with a difficult student drove me to succeed in life - im not saying im all that much of a success but I earn double that of most teachers - always wanted to return to school one day just to rub their grubby red noses in it but now I couldnt be bothered.

[/quote]

on 2 - absolute shite research then - the single greatest indicator of student success is the student.

3. actually I was talking about myself. I accept that about me - the rest is fiction.


Josh - as I've actually said elsewhere - I have no idea if Ratts is the best available -

I do like Roos and Micky Malt but I accept that I have no true understanding of this subject - having never coached, never interviewed prospective coaches etc...

I worry that Ratts is learning on the job (something you mentioned in an different thread, and therefore I think we need to mentor him (see prelim's point 2 ) and I get frustrated at our lack of progress (like winning more than 2 games in a row) but I accept we average about 77 games as a team while the good ones average a lot more (Collingwood 105)

I think there are probably better coaches out there but I am not so sure Ratts being coach will prevent us from winning the 17th just as I am not sure getting the best ensures it.

I also think most of my opinions are based on not having all the information so silly yo expect the club to consider them.


And that is why I do all my yelling and ranting at the football where it is released into the air and soon forgotten about.[/quote]


DB. Arguing for the sake of arguing compromises your intelligence (and I have formed an opinion of you that you're an intelligent man)

Refuting research by calling it shite is just churlish.
If you were talking about yourself in a previous thread, why did you use the word, "our" more than once?

You don't feel informed enough about making comments regarding Ratten...thats fine
Using that argument, your'e just as ill informed about the perspectives and contexts in which others make their comments

I've also formed an opinion of you that you enjoy getting the last word in on a discussion. if you respond, that's fine....I will read it and respect your point of view.

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

just on 2 - explain how the teacher is a greater indicator of success than a student?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

standards are usually easily quantifiable.....this one.......not so easily quantifiable.

Students will learn with or without a teacher but a great teacher will provide guidance, explicit ongoing feedback, motivation and direct instruction they will know when to push or when to step back. They will make students aware of what they do not know and over time change habits or create new habits to help them think make decisions to effectively solve and create problems.

All current research does confirm that the teacher has the greatest influence over a child in terms of learning outcomes.

You might find this link from TED interesting about kids teaching themselves in India but it appears that at a certain point direction/facilitation is required to go to the next step! Much like AFL footballers they all have ability and natural talent but a great coach will get them to an elite level.

Are you suggesting that a coach doesn't improve a footballer and that it is entirely up to the player? Leigh Brown from Colonwood ??

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/sugat ... elves.html

Look at the education system.. The reason private school students receive better marks isn't because the students are naturally better, but because they are taught the right things and placed in the best possible environment for the best chance at success in exams..

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#23: Lachlan Henderson

Talking Carlton hit an all time low (just ask the google ads) last summer when various people continued to repeat themselves over and over and over again sh*t canning Ratten. I like this site but I hope I don't have to put up with that crap for the next 6 months.

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Delulio is a member of TISM

yes, very boring.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

I think a teacher is a part but the greatest part?

I think a coach is a part but without the players?

Could any coach have gotten a flag with last year's Richmond side?

I think the coaching staff establishes things for the team - how they might work in the back six, how to bring the ball out etc but a coach needs cattle that can run, can kick etc. I seriously do not believe we have all the cattle and yet we made it to the 8 and really could have won that final against Sydney in Sydney after playing a cracker game against Freo in Freo the week before.

Am I happy with Ratts and Co - actually no but not to the point where every post I make has to somehow denigrate Ratts and lays all the failures at his feet and none of the successes.

It seems if we applied that to teachers then every failed student is a teacher's fault - and that is not the case. I know - I worked for 20 years with many who were their fault (or the system's) but they also had parents that had issues - money that was scare, lots of shifting around (especially those that had been booted out of home and lived wherever they could) and many of the points missing (or unsteady) in Maslow's heirarchy

and finally and most importantly - themselves - whether it be because they had mental ( and physical) illness issues or whether they just had not copped with what life had thrown at them.

Carlton still have not got (in my mind) the required 26/7 players needed to push for a top 4 finish - we are closer and with more experience and some lunch this summer we may even be there in the next year or so but if I do not think we are there now then how can I expect Ratts to get them there? Or blame him if he doesn't ?

As for this year's report card - I, like many, did not think we would make the eight this year - or perhaps it would be better to say I would not have been surprised - partly due to Fev and Stevo going but mostly because I thought Ratts would struggle

yet we did make the eight so I would have to give Ratts a B I think. I'd rather an A grade coach but I suspect an A grade coach needs an A grade list that ticks off all the boxes

Blend of
Youth
Experience
Speed
Height
Depth
Class
Desire
Confidence
Luck
(and a few other things I've probably forgotten)

and finally - then I'll shut up (for prelim and only in this thread) - if Ratts is a young coach learning and at this point he's a B grade coach - can he become an A grade coach?

Would it be great for the club if as the side grew he grew?

I do not know the answer to that and I'd suggest neither does anyone else

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

great. close the thread.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

Interesting listening to Greg Swan on 3AW last night. He was saying that the club will not rush into re-signing Ratts and Ratten is aware that they'll be leaving their judgement until the end of the year. (A good decision IMO). Obviously the Knights debacle has influenced clubs to take a little more time before wasting money.

He also stated that Carlton is aiming for the top 4 instead of finishing in the bottom of the 8 like the previous couple of years. Personally I'm rapt to hear that is the clubs expectation. Ratts has a tendency to hose down expectation IMO and waffle on about "winning a final" which is nonsense. We were a kick away from winning an away final in 2008. 2 years down the track, you'd want to be expecting much more than that. Unfortunately if the lower expectation prevails, it will be reflected in the expectations of the players. The coaching changes over the off season were'nt the result of a simple "freshen up". The administration were unhappy with the direction of the coaching group and they made decisions that will ensure a change of methodology and direction.

Interestingly, Healy asked Swan what Ratten would need to achieve to retain his job. Swann stated that Carlton "would need to improve....possibly substantially". I like that. Good clubs expect success and with about 8 or 9 coaches coming out of contract in 2011, it's a buyers market.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Stand by for a year of relentless meda speculation and harassment, it will be unbearable from July onwards.

That will seem like a tea party compared to TC.

Im not saying we need to, but there's a reason why clubs re-appoint early.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

..and we definitely don't need to re appoint ratten early.

I have taught kids in a low socio economic area for 20 years
The quality of the teacher makes very little difference to student achievement in this area.

Couldnt give a @#$%&! what research they say.

It comes down to motivation within the individual

You can make a difference but it is marginal

Ratten has the advantage of delisting players if they dont peform.

Didn't hear the interview but that's reads as exactly where expectations should be.

Ratten has done a fabulous job ... looking forward to his continued coaching at the CFC.

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

Yep, I think it has been the right approach in the past to hose down expectations.

However, I think our list is mature enough to accept greater expectations being placed on them. Right now, I'd rather aim high and fail, than aim low and succeed.

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I'm sorry but that has not been my experience and I don't believe it's supported by research.

The teacher can make all the difference.

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I hope Essendon* folds.

A teacher with passion for learning can make all the difference.

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

You can keep throwing half volleys outside off stump BR but they're too wide to hit.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.