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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:04 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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molsey wrote:
All the PSD and Rookies are now up in Player Profiles on the site.

Good effort by the Club.

I guess if they can focus on the little things and then take up the big things when there is some Board support we should be happy.

Jarusa, have you had a chat to Steve about getting on the Sub-Committee or at least presenting to it?


Not aware of the sub-committee. More than happy to help if I can help.

What is the sub-committee and its purpose? You can email me details if you prefer.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:17 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Jarusa wrote:
Not aware of the sub-committee. More than happy to help if I can help.

What is the sub-committee and its purpose? You can email me details if you prefer.


There is a sub-committee of the Carlton Board that has been formed to review the internet rights situation, with a view to assessing alternatives through 2006 and determining who we will go with . I know you've said that it is highly likely that there will be less cash in it for the Club regardless, but I'd like to think that Board members will talk to people in the know before making a decision.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Mordan wrote:
I still think we're saying exactly the same things.


You say potato... :)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:08 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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molsey wrote:
All the PSD and Rookies are now up in Player Profiles on the site.

Good effort by the Club.



Wow, that's pretty good. 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:00 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Bring back Bluey!

The website has improved, but the focus of it has to change....it's a communication and marketting tool and these things have to be "immediate"....

All interfacing with the club MUST be on the website...
Anything I can walk through the door and ask, ring through or expect to pick up from the club should be there.
The site has improved "out of site".....
but gee don't traing reports get the blood pumping, updates on the injured, pics of new draftees, profile on the guys we picked up, stats....shame of it is this is all on TC not the official website....mean anything?

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Last edited by billc3 on Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:03 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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billc3 wrote:
Bring back Bluey!



Yes!! Best site contributor ever.

I miss Bluey.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:09 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Jarusa wrote:
billc3 wrote:
Bring back Bluey!



Yes!! Best site contributor ever.

I miss Bluey.


Ditto.

And bill is correct...the content of the website MUST be up-to-date and immediate. Members of this site and others constantly turn to the site for news such as the rookies and draft day, only to be frustrated by no updates.

And I have been trying to renew the membership on-line, only to give up and phone-in instead. THe membership form was a pdf, that could not be filled in and processed straight away, but had to be printed and then faxed off! But the club recommended renewing on-line! A time waster and a temper increaser.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:11 pm 
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Bruce Comben

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Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:36 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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I know that St. Kilda make a mint and therefore can put more money into its site, but why do they make more money. My stepson ordered the St.Kilda away guernsey,dont worry , I am trying to get Aisake to bring him home a blues one, but just do something, go to their site, go to their club site and look at the amount of merchandise, look at their official stuff, you can, if you choose, look just like one of the team, official tracksuit, even down to their choice of different training t shirts, all of this is going to bring in money.
Also interest over here is booming, as the international rules gets more publicised each year plus AFl gets more coverage, PLUS the Irish guys, especially as O hAilpín is the most recognisable name in Irish sport, the club do not have International membership, for a small sum they could do a pack, the inside Carlton mag, a scarf, a club tshirt with Aussie rules style, crest on front and maybe O hAilpín and one of their numbers on the back, you know, stuff that kids who idolised Setanta would want. I went to the All Ireland final with Aisake, now, he didnt play for Cork seniors and the amount of young and old who stopped him on the way to the ground for photos, autographs and who said to him, " ah sure, we look out for Carltons results on the TV each week, was unreal. Now tell me there is not money to be made there. When they are home the club could have them attend big sports shops, sign some Blues gear and then stock some of their stuff. Just a thought

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 Post subject: website
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:47 pm 
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Bert Deacon
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man, I work full time doing web stuff within an internal communications area, but also was on our Internet team which was also part of a broader communications area

- to put it bluntly, I really believe if Carlton did invest in a full time web person it would be well worth it and the actual ROI would easily justify itself within the space of around 12 months. The Internet is the very first thing that people think of when it comes to finding out information about most things these days, and given the passion of the Carlton supporter base overall, we really should take the risk and invest in a full time web officer for the Club.

Personally, I wouldnt mind if I received one less addition of inside Carlton every year if it meant we did have a full time web officer - it must be embarrasing to think that dudes like myself with dodgy 10mb internet sites can have news and other information updated quicker than the Club on some occassions!

Just a thought

Rich


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:07 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Chemical wrote:
Image


Ssshhhhh.... he may be listening......

I agree, in fact, the Bluey write-ups provided a lot of inspiration to me to try to mesh humour and fact - as you can tell it's a very very long term target (!). But Bluey material must be hard to continue to come up with - its what I call aspect review; focussing on certain aspects of the game and comparing it across clubs, players and/or generations. I think the occasional Bluey Special would be most welcome on the site.

But you all have to remember that the Contributors are just volunteers and life can only provide so much time. A rotation of Contributors over seasons and over time, providing different insights as we progress, would be ideal for all concerned. 2005 was going to be my last year given impending fatherhood but I'm enjoying it so much more than my real job that I'm going to give it another go, well, at least until May 2006.

But this topic is much bigger than Contributors and volunteers working for the site. its more about how we can get our current site, which I think the Club is trying very hard on with limited resources as evidenced by the immmediate playerlist updates this year (Lots of complaints last year, and I have to ask how immediate is immediate?), to become this Utopian website superior to the Bombers / st Kilda one? Is it a matter of getting face time with the decision makers, or do those who know Collins think its unlikely under this leadership?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:36 am 
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Bruce Doull
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There's a lot of good stuff in this thread. molsey maybe you should highlight some of it to the club … you could email it, do you know if they have an internet connection?! :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:54 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Just had a thought in regards to this.

How about a "members only" section, where you log in under your name and membership number, and get access to a more in-depth area, like a larger variety of comptuer desktop pics, game images, interviews, etc.

I think there should be a way, other than through the interstate supporter networks, to post up messages of interest to others in your city/state, such as get-togethers for watching matches, bbq days etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:50 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Whooooaaaaa!

About @#$%&! time this got a serious run.

This is going to be a long post but hopefully it can add something to the discussion. I've been meaning to write to the club for a while about the site and any future deals they may be locking themselves into.

Earlier this year when Talking Carlton was founded I was an advocate of trying to get the various Carlton communities together to create a fan forum/site that utilised the broader Carlton community in order to provide fans with a site that would be the envy of all the clubs.

The thing is whilst we might talk about Essendon* or the Saints being ahead in this area the truth is that they're miles behind where they should be as well. In fact I'm yet to see a sporting club site that does what it might which is to be a true community of its interested parties built and maintained by those interested parties.

Have a think about how much goes into the contributions and maintenance of fan forums such as TC, CSC and TBV. Have a think about how much of that energy is harnessed by the Carlton Football Club.

Other than a few contributors submitting a few articles now and then it's bugger all. That's not to belittle the contributors to the CFC site just to acknowledge that as a percentage of the energy that's spent by fans in forums such as these it doesn't even rate 1%.

There's an opening for the club with the end of the Telstra deal that offers the possibility of doing something truly extraordinary that will change the way sports clubs use the online environment for all time.

Christopher Locke who was a co-authour of "The Cluetrain Manifesto" has written about this future in "Gonzo Marketing". The guy comes across as potentially psychotic but his message is sound and it's amazing that it hasn't been taken on board by more organisations (although perhaps not if you consider how inately conservative most ot these are).

The basic message is as follows (to save time I'll quote from a review of the book):

Eric Norlin wrote:
"Gonzo Marketing" works from an established premise: The broadcast paradigm is dying. The broadcast paradigm in this sense refers not just to marketing but more to the mass media that disseminates marketing messages. The book alleges a growing ineffectiveness of marketing in the context of its creation and a vastly different approach to an alternative.

Here come the quotes:

Gonzo Marketing provides a model whereby companies can stop manipulating people as if they were abstract demographic data, and instead create genuine relationships with emergent online communities of interest: powerful new web micromarkets. The paradox is that companies can have everything they've always wanted. Greater market share. Customer loyalty. Brand equity. All those empty phrases that today make people blow coffee out their noses. But companies can actually achieve these goals. No really. All they have to do is follow the advice my Junior High principal once shared with me. "Son," he said, shaking with anger, "you've got to get your thinking straight!"


You can read the entire review here:

http://www.clickz.com/experts/archives/res/personal/article.php/903301

This isn't pie in the shy shit. If a sporting organisation got courageous enough to do this properly the future would look like this:

Carlton Football Club would own and oversee carltonfc.com.au. The basic maintenance of the site would be handled by a team of two or three techs overseen by a sub-committee apopointed by the board. The sub-committee would be made up of board members, techs and interested fans with a history of contribution to the online football community.

The site would be built in a way that 95% of all content would be provided by the fans for the fans. The club would still release news via its own section of the site and handle advertising but other than that it would do very little. Obviously you can't just completely open up the site to anyone to post whatever (other than in the various forums) but you can open it up to established interested parties to build their own domains within the larger Carlton online world.

For example the site could have the following:

Jarusa's stats interests could become a key area of the site where a larger archive of stats related data and articles could be accessed

The Blueseum would be another area that would spin off the site

Those hard-core training freaks could be lent a digital video supplied by the club on training days which would then be placed in a training section with an archive of training videos that would allow fans to go back and compare and discuss the various changes or lack of to both training and the individual development of players.

Once a week a player would come online for discussion with fans.

carltonfc.com.au would not need to maintain its own forum. For legal reasons I'm sure the club would be nervous about having open slather on the forums. What it could do is provide the links to the existing forums essentially bringing them in under the club's umbrella but not being responsible for them. You can't be sued for something that's said on a site you merely provided a link to. if that weren't the case then Google would have been out of business years ago.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. I could go on but the key thing in all this is that the role of the club's online presence would change from "broadcasting" to the Carlton community to "facilitating" engagement between the carlton community.

If the sub-committee can get their head around this significant difference then there's a chance of it happening. If they see it as too difficult or too revolutionary for their conservative tendencies then we're condemned to be following behind forever.

I have little doubt that a club is going to do this one day and my money's on Eddie or Thomas to drive it through at their clubs but there's no reason why it couldn't be Carlton to lead the way.

What would it cost?

Not a lot.

Salaries for three techs. Enough backend to support the site which could be quite large before too long.

That's about it off the top of my head. There may be other expenses but they wouldn't be great.

As mentioned earlier by steve (I think) there's also a need for better database management and utilization of the online side of the club's membership but that's just a basic operational issue that should have been implemented yonks ago.

The fundamental shift is for the club to recognize that it's in partnership with its stakeholders and to utilize their resources rather than preach to them (poorly) from above.

The benefits to the club in facilitating a true online community with all the possible bells and whistles will pay dividends many times greater than any potential costs.

Time to have some guts Blues. :wink:

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Last edited by GWS on Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:55 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Any post that uses the word 'gonzo' has to be read! Thanks GWS. I agree wholeheartedly but the issue at hand is to get someone senior interested. Happy to camp out at malouf's office with a list of signatures, but without some buy-in and cost allocation the club site will remain as it is.

There does appear to be a very strong reluctance to embrace the fansites, and I think it has alot to do with 2 reasons 1) some of the crap that gets written here clearly cannot be linked to an official site. bagging players cannot be done within full view of the Club, and 2) something happened at some time to turn the Club against them. This happened pre-TC, something to do with either TBV or CSC but I couldn't get an answer. Does anyone know of any such event?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:03 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I think having independent fan sites is a good thing. I think it's great that TC and others have been able to support player sponsorship initiatives, but I would not like to see TC aligned with the club in an official capacity. We can and should and work with the club in anyway possible, but the freedom to vent that an independent site gives is a good thing (most of the time). Well, just IMO anyway.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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molsey wrote:
There does appear to be a very strong reluctance to embrace the fansites, and I think it has alot to do with 2 reasons 1) some of the crap that gets written here clearly cannot be linked to an official site. bagging players cannot be done within full view of the Club, and 2) something happened at some time to turn the Club against them. This happened pre-TC, something to do with either TBV or CSC but I couldn't get an answer. Does anyone know of any such event?


I don't know of any particular event molsey but the argument that the club can't be seen to be linked to views disparaging of the club and the players is evidence of exactly the sort of top-down management that's strangling any sort of innovation. Imagine if an organisation was willing to embrace the opinions of its stakeholders. It doesn't mean they have to agree (a basic disclaimer will solve that) just that they value the opinions of all interested parties. Imagine what energy could be harnessed.

Or of course they could just keep blowing smoke up our arses... :?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:08 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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camelboy wrote:
I think having independent fan sites is a good thing. I think it's great that TC and others have been able to support player sponsorship initiatives, but I would not like to see TC aligned with the club in an official capacity. We can and should and work with the club in anyway possible, but the freedom to vent that an independent site gives is a good thing (most of the time). Well, just IMO anyway.


I'm not suggesting the club has anything to do with the running of TC camel. Just providing a link. TC and any other site would remain independent. What would change would be the CFC site which would offer facilities for interested parties to contribute in a way that's not currently possible.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:09 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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molsey wrote:
Any post that uses the word 'gonzo' has to be read! Thanks GWS. I agree wholeheartedly but the issue at hand is to get someone senior interested. Happy to camp out at malouf's office with a list of signatures, but without some buy-in and cost allocation the club site will remain as it is.

There does appear to be a very strong reluctance to embrace the fansites, and I think it has alot to do with 2 reasons 1) some of the crap that gets written here clearly cannot be linked to an official site. bagging players cannot be done within full view of the Club, and 2) something happened at some time to turn the Club against them. This happened pre-TC, something to do with either TBV or CSC but I couldn't get an answer. Does anyone know of any such event?


In terms of player bagging, that could be just a matter of the mods being far more heavy handed. I realise that's exponentially more work for them, but there must be some way to keep the bagging in line. Also, if you have an over-moderated forum it will just die, and the players go elsewhere where they can express their opinions openly.

If the Club is reluctant because of an event which is either petty, or quite old, then it's time for whoever at the club to bloody well get over it.

GWS has provided a fantastic framework for opening up opportunities for the Club, and there's probably not one of us who would LOVE to say they have helped the club get one over the Filth or Scum in this way, and would do it for far less than market rates.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:13 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
GWS has provided a fantastic framework for opening up opportunities for the Club, and there's probably not one of us who would LOVE to say they have helped the club get one over the Filth or Scum in this way, and would do it for far less than market rates.


Forget market rates - most of this would be free.

Who wouldn't want to pick up the digital vid when they go to training and then hand over their handiwork at the end for all to see. :wink:

As I mentioned above KK there's no need for the club to be involved in moderating anything really. The fan forums just spin off the site (cfc becomes a portal for them) and go on as before.

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